Jump to content

Talk:List of Jewish prayers and blessings

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Structure of page

[edit]

This page is rather poorly structured. The alternative would be to include the integral text of havdalah, which would lead to significant overlap. Any ideas, opinions etc.? JFW | T@lk


The article states

Shabbat
Shabbat candles
The Jewish Sabbath is known as Shabbat in Hebrew.

This is back-to-front. Shabbat is Hebrew (Ivrit), Sabbath is the English pronunciation. Shabbat IS Jewish, there is no other. The proto-Christians moved the day to Sunday, to fit in with the Roman worship of the Sun God, in order to attract more Pagans to the "New" religion. The sentence should, therefore, read......

Shabbat, (Sabbath in English).........

Historygypsy (talk) 21:18, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

This article has been kept following this VFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:15, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Birkat ha-Mazon

[edit]

The grace after meals [bentsch] is missing -- I think it's rather important.

It has its own article -- Birkat Hamazon -- so no need for more than a short mention and a link here. --Shirahadasha 23:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

{{Torah portion}}

[edit]

{{Torah portion}} does not belong on this page; it's irrelevant (and too long btw).—msh210℠ 19:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Many missing brachot

[edit]

Birkat Hatorah is very important; I think it should definately be on this page. In addition, there are quite a number of other brachot that we make frequently, like birchot haroeh, birchot hanehenin, birchot hashachar and pesukei d'zimra; and many that we make less often like kiddush levana, bris millah, nisu'in, megilla, and nacheim, to name a few. I also agree that the whole page needs some major restructuring. --Geshmakster 18:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Complete services (as distinct from individual brachot) should probably have their own article or be part of Jewish services rather than belonging on this page. New articles on birchot hashachar, pesukei d'zimra, kiddush levana, etc. are needed and your creating and authoring even a short article on them would be very helpful. Some articles (e.g. Brit milah already exist under a different spelling. Shabbat Shalom, --Shirahadasha 21:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Concerning some articles, I feel that it is more useful to write new articles from an Orthodox-only point of view. The interference (no insult intended) of Reformism in these things is too difficult. --Daniel575 10:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Creating new articles with an Orthodox-only point of view (as opposed to ensuring that the Orthodox POV is accurately and proportionately represented) might be a problem given the WP:POV fork policy. See WP:NPOV. Have you considered using the wikimedia facilities to start an Orthodox-only wiki-based encyclopedia? That way all articles could be from an Orthodox-only POV. --Shirahadasha 16:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the Reform Movement has reworded any major prayers but the Amidah, other than perhaps using more "egalitarian" language. They just don't use the things; therefore, the Orthodox phrasing is the only phrasing in common use, unless the Conservative movement has changed the wording a bit, which again, would likely consist of rearranging some pronouns. If my assumptions are correct, then there would be no substitute to the Orthodox POV on how this prayer or that prayer is to be said. All that would have to be said is that the Reform and Conservative movements have made the text more gender-neutral, and that the Reform movement doesn't believe it is incumbent to say any of them. --75.110.153.157 20:10, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Transliteration

[edit]

What looks more readable: Barukh atah Adonai, Elohaynu, melekh ha-olam, asher kid'shanu b'meetzvotav v'tzeevanu l’had’lik ner shel hanukah or Baruch atah Adonai, Eloheinu, melekh ha-olam, asher kideshanu b'mitzvotav vetzivanu lehadlik ner shel chanukah Tell me. --Daniel575 08:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The latter is definately more readable, but the former is the more common transliteration system, so it should be used. 75.110.153.157 12:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Right now it appears that a mixture of that is used throughout this article. "B'mitzvotav" from the latter is used instead of "b'meetzvotav" - "L'had'lik" from the former is not used but "l'hadlik" is. There was even one occurence of "vetzivanu" from the latter, but since it was "v'tzivanu" everywhere else, I changed it. --130.225.243.84 (talk) 18:53, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested Blessings

[edit]

Figured I'd make a place for people submit the suggestions. Having a more complete list makes it easier to organize. I do commend y'all on the job you've done keeping this short and sweet the way it appears right now. After all, there's a whole Talmud related to Barachos!


strikeout = added to the article

italic = (should be its) own article

== " mean eternity (c.f. l'olam va'ed). In Rabbinic Hebrew "Olam" means universe. There is, however, no Biblical Hebrew word for universe. Universe is a Greek concept. In the Torah, there is "Shamayim Va'aretz" -- heavens and earth (i.e. celestial and terrestrial).

The assertion that Berachot are all composed in Biblical Hebrew is accepted by linguistic scholars, and is verifiable. Consider the mishna in berachot -- which indicates that on the "pri ha'ilan" we say "borea piree ha’aytz ". We do not say "borea piree ha'ilan". In Biblical Hebrew, "’aytz" means tree, so we make a beracha on the fruit of the tree. In Rabbinic Hebrew, the term "’aytz" began to mean wood, whereas the Aramaic word (found in Daniel) became "Ilan" -- to mean tree. The Rabbis said on the fruit of a tree (using their work Ilan), we say "creates the fruit of the tree" (using the biblical word ’aytz). We certainly do not make the beracha onthe fruit of the wood.

And thus, we should correct melekh ha‑olam to mean eternal King. --Gil 20:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Melekh olam" (as in Jeremiah 10:10) would mean eternal king. "Haolam" as a stand-alone adjective is not found in the Tanakh according to this search (except in Daniel, which is not exactly standard Biblical Hebrew). Additionally, what is your source that brachot are in Biblical Hebrew? The brachah "leishev basukkah," for one, is in Mishnaic Hebrew. --Eliyak T·C 14:48, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Hi! The blessings unquestionably follow Biblical Hebrew grammar and sytax. However, this does not mean that Wikipedia should report their meaning as reflecting some sort of scholarly understanding of what the words meant in the time of the Bible. This is an article on contemporary Judaism. The prayers mean what the people praying them intend. Like much of contemporary Judaism, these blessings reached Judaism through the lens of Rabbinic teaching, and rabbinic thought heavily influences their contemporary meaning. As in many other areas of contemporary Judaism, it would be a grave mistake to assume that these prayers' apparent superficial similarity to Biblical languange as understood by secular Biblical scholarship should imply that that scholarship, rather than Jewish religious scholarship, is the most reliable source for Wikipedia's description of what contemporary Jewish religious prayers and practices mean to those who pray and do them. I would suggest relying on sources rather than attempting our own translation. Artscroll's translation is probably the de facto standard Orthodox one at least in the United States. One could provide multiple translations or alternatives in parenthesis where the Conservative Sim Shalom or Reform Gates of Prayer translations differ. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
i thought rabbi habers tapes were a great explanation of the jewish prayers i think his site is www.torahlab.org the series is titled new heights in jewish prayer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshman62 (talk • contribs) 14:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Informal greetings

[edit]

The intro had promised that the article would discuss both liturgical blessings and informal greetings like mazel tov. I removed the reference to informal greetings intro because right now the article doesn't have any, and the intro shouldn't promise what the article doesn't have. If editors would like to add information about informal greetings like mazel tov, shekoach, shalom, baruch hashem, etc., I think this would be a great idea and would suggest doing so in another article called e.g. Jewish greetings or similar. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

G-d ?

[edit]

I apologize if this has already been discussed elsewhere (I would be surprised if it has not been). The latest edit to the article: "CharlesMartel (→Prayers with their own articles: a) that rule only applies in Hebrew, b) the reason you don't wirte the name on paper is because paper can be destroyed. The internet cannot.)" raises a consistency & halachic issue. I have certainly heard both sides on this argument - a) The name of G-d should not be written out any time even though it is not in Hebrew and that doing so gives the document a higher status (and possibly makes it require burial (Shaimos)). b) The name of G-d is only sacred in Hebrew and/or on a computer screen (constantly refreshed, not permanent) it is not an issue. As far as the screen/Internet situation - that is, in my opinion, not much of an answer here because people will often print Wikipedia articles and then that "solution" goes away. That still leaves the more basic question of Hebrew vs. other languages and possibly other mitigating factors. This article is incredibly inconsistent. Is there a consensus elsewhere which could be applied here? If not, should we vote on it? Manassehkatz (talk) 15:34, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Manassehkatz, you seem to be refuting someone else's points. Where are they written? as I only see your comments and not theirs. If you are in favor of not using His name, then I would have to agree, as that is just Jewish Law (since the article can (and will) be printed) for printing His name. Also, by visiting this article, a copy of it is stored in your PC, and your HDD eventually will end up in the trash and therefore His name would no be properly treated. Also, there may be backup tapes at Wikipedia which would suffer the same fate. I am always befuddled by Wikipedia's massive body of rules, so I do not know what the outcome of this would be, but I vote for not using His name. Cheers. Alessio.aguirre (talk) 14:39, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fixing this up

[edit]

I think we need to redo this page to a certain extent. The title is "List of..." and right now it doesn't seem like much of a list. Additionally, there is the Berakhah article which seems to be similar to this one... What do you think? How to start? Yydl (talk) 19:54, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Minor Vandalism

[edit]

At the end of "Transliteration: Modeh ani lifanekha melekh hai v'kayam shehehezarta bi nishmahti b'hemla, raba emunatekha." (for מודה אני לפניך מלך חי וקיים שהחזרת בי נשמתי בחמלה, רבה אמונתך.‏) someone added some text which is not in the Hebrew text that is being transliterated nor in the original blessing, things such as "Shana Tova, Mozel Tov" and so forth. I took it out, but we should keep an eye on the text to make sure that no more random changes exist. Alessio.aguirre (talk) 14:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, but I am really bad at actually writing articles ... but I would love to help...190.31.140.34 (talk) 02:35, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

¶ I have enlarged the commentary on the Birkat Ha-Gomeyl -- and added a footnotes section. Sussmanbern (talk) 21:23, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Outdated??

[edit]

I have removed the "needs update" box from the top of §Prayers:

There's nothing on this talk page to justify it, and I don't see how this could need updating. Maybe it was part of the minor vandalism mentioned in the preceding Talk section. --Thnidu (talk) 01:13, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Old talk page vandalism

[edit]

§Structure of page, at the top of this Talk page, included obvious vandalism from the revs of 15:42, 5 February 2012 and 11:38, 19 February 2012. The vandals' texts were, however, the only separation between two separate comments. The section previously read (vandalism in brown, bot autosign in green):

This page is rather poorly structured. The alternative would be to include the integral text of havdalah, which would lead to significant overlap. Any ideas, opinions etc.? JFW | T@lk 09:22, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The article states Shabbat" Shabbat candles The Jewish Sabbath is known as Shabbat in Hebrew.
This is back-to-front. Shabbat is Hebrew (Ivrit), Sabbath is the English pronunciation. Shabbat IS Jewish, there is no other. The proto-Christians moved the day to Sunday, to fit in with the Roman worship of the Sun God, in order to attract more Pagans to the "New" religion. The sentence should, therefore, read......Shabbat, (Sabbath in English).........Historygypsy (talk) 21:18, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have undone the vandalism.
  • I have also inserted a centered 25%-width horizontal rule to separate the contributions, and
  • added some formatting to the second post (beginning "The article states"). The poster, Historygypsy, evidently didn't realize that wikicode ignores single line breaks in non-list text. I've added formatting in accordance with their linebreaks to make it more comprehensible. (See that section of that revision, right-hand column.)

--Thnidu (talk) 02:03, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Niqqud?

[edit]

Can we add vowel points to the Hebrew? That would be quite helpful to those of us who are not very advanced Hebrew students, and it is consistent with common practice of including them in prayer books. Peter Chastain (talk) 04:43, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Table format

[edit]

The "Prayers" section is a table with the prayer names vertically centered within each row. I find that hard to read. It would be easier if there were lines between the cells, or if the prayer names were at the top of the cell. Peter Chastain (talk) 04:51, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tallit blessing

[edit]

I'm reverting an anonymous editor's two successive changes, to the transliteration and translation of the blessing before putting on the tallit.

Previous and restored version:

Transliteration: Barukh ata Adonai Eloheinu, melekh ha'olam, asher kid'shanu b'mitzvotav, v'tzivanu al mitzvat tzitzit.
Translation: "Blessed are You, LORD our God, King of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments, and commanded us regarding the commandment of fringes."

Anonymous change:

Transliteration: Barukh ata YAHWEH YAH-oheinu, melekh ha'olam, asher kid'shanu b'mitzvotav v'tzivanu l'hit'atef ba'tzitzit.
Translation: "Blessed are You, {YAHWEH} our MIGHTY ONE, King of the universe, Who has SET US APART with His MITZVOT (commandments) and has commanded us to wrap ourselves with fringes."

(Anonymous seems to be SHOUTING OUT their ... translations(?).)

The blessings for fulfilling commandments are translated here with the same formula,

Blessed are You, LORD our God, King of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments, and commanded us...

If there were any doubt about the meaning of the root קדש, even for a non-Hebrew-speaker, here are four other translations of this b'racha:

Chabad
Blessed are You, Lord our God, King of the universe, who has sanctified us with His commandments, and commanded us to enwrap ourselves in Tzitzit.
Judaism 101
Blessed are you, Lord, our God, sovereign of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us to wrap ourselves in the tzitzit
Jewish Virtual Library
Blessed are You, our God, Creator of time and space, who enriches our lives with holiness, commanding us to wrap ourselves in the tallit.
Akhlah: The Jewish Children's Learning Network
Praised are you, Lord our G-d, Sovereign of the Universe, who has made us holy with the Mitzvot and instructed us to wrap ourselves with tzitzit.

--Thnidu (talk) 07:06, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of Jewish prayers and blessings. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:16, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Eloheinu

[edit]

What's with the hyphen between the aleph and lamed in Elohenu? 2603:8001:6600:BD15:7DD9:ACB1:3D52:1FA8 (talk) 06:14, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good question. There is no Wikipedia:Manual of Style/God, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Name of God or Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Names of God or anything like that. Wikipedia seems to have only two manuals of style pertaining to specific religions: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Islam-related articles and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Latter Day Saints. The former of these specifies not to use styles that Islam generally prefers or requires, such as following Muhammad's name with (PBUH), which means "peace be upon him". In other words, Wikipedia style is to call Muhammad "Muhammad", never mind what Islamic rules require. In parallel with the Islam-related MOS, I believe that Wikipedia style should be to ignore Jewish rules about the name of God. If there is no comment here, in a few days I will change ה'‎ to יהוה‎ and אֱ-לֹהֵינוּ‎ to אֱלֹהֵינוּ‎. —Anomalocaris (talk) 23:41, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Postscript: There is Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism/Manual of Style, but it does not discuss Jewish prohibitions on the use of names of God. —Anomalocaris (talk) 00:19, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_Jewish_prayers_and_blessings&oldid=1251164773"