Talk:History of rugby league

Untitled

I think it was that first New Zealand RL touring team in 1907 which inspired the formation of the New South Wales RL, rather than the other way round, as it appears at the moment.

There is that great story -- perhaps it is only a story, but it's worth mentioning -- about how a post office worker in NZ had a coughing fit, dropped his newspaper, and his mate saw on it a story about the vast sums being generated by RL games in England, giving him the idea to form a team to tour overseas... Grant65 (Talk) 12:54, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Re NZ or Aus first, this article is a good one: [1] The crucial phrase in there is "Moves for a professional rugby were well advanced in Sydney by the end of Autumn in 1907. Upon hearing of Baskerville's plans, the movement gained serious momentum."

Also it mentions that incident you mentioned [2]:

"Baskerville's lone interest in the obscure game is attributed by his brother to an incident in the Wellington Post Office in 1906. Apparently a fellow employee, known simply as "old Harry", suffered a coughing fit and slumped to the floor near Baskerville. After the man had been treated, Baskerville picked up a copy of the Manchester Athletic News that "old Harry" had been reading and his attention was caught by an article which heralded that 40,000 enthusiasts had paid more than 1000 pounds to watch a NU game at Bradford. Seemingly motivated by the possible financial gains Baskerville brazenly wrote to the NU seeking agreement to bring a NZ touring team to England."

Grinner 14:49, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Feature status

Before the article gains feature status, I think there needs to be more of an Australian perspective, considering the prominence of Australia in all aspects of the game, its development and its afficionados. For a genuinely balanced article, anyway.

I don't have the league background or the time at the moment, but here are some suggestions for important Aussie content, courtesy of an article by the journo Ian Heads:

1. Wallabies coup (1909): The game's privately backed coup lured virtually the entire Wallabies team across to rugby league, thereby cementing the 13-a-side game as a permanent fixture and laying the necessary foundation for a successful future.

2. Super League (1995): The News Ltd-backed sneak attack tore rugby league apart. It led to the death of some clubs, opened gaping wounds elsewhere, and threatened the game's very future

3. Souths (1999): The NRL's decision on October 15, 1999 to exclude the game's most famous and successful club, the South Sydney Rabbitohs, from the planned 14-team competition caused shocked and anger.

4. Four tackle rule (1967): The decision to introduce the four-tackle rule was a profound change for a game which was threatening to be bogged down with an obsession with retaining possession. The rule (later a six-tackle, in 1971) laid the platform for the game's modern era.

5. Four Corners (1983): Chris Masters' sensational Four Corners program of May 1983 ended the 10 year reign of Kevin Humphreys as NSWRL and ARL president. It also led to a royal commission, a premier, Neville Wran, standing aside for a time and eventually resulted in the jailing of former NSW chief stipendiary magistrate Murray Farquhar.

6. Bulldogs salary cap crisis (2002)

7. Glebe player strike (1917): Extraordinary events led to a player strike at the Glebe club, the subsequent long-term suspension of the Glebe team, and repercussions which brought virtual civil war to Newcastle rugby league ... all of it over a residential rule protest involving a player named Laddo Davies.

8. Balmain no-show (1909): The club's refusal to play the season's premiership-decider against Souths was unprecedented. The decision was a protest at the insult of the final being programmed as a "prelim" to a Wallabies v Kangaroos game. Souths kicked off against no-one, registered a 'try' - and won the premiership.

Highly commended in the all time Big Story Stakes are the likes of the John Hopoate's digital adventures, the drug headlines surrounding the likes of Rodney Howe, Rodney O'Davis and Adam MacDougall, the ear-bite incident of 1945, and referee Aub Oxford's 1954 decision to walk off and abandon a Great Britain v NSW bloodbath.[3]

There could also be mention of the Bulldogs sexual assault scandal in 2004.

Cheers, Grant65 (Talk) 12:47, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

I agree that I lack the Australian knowledge, but some of the points are already there. Also that list is mostly "infamous" events, rather than truly historical:

1. Is covered in the section 'Rugby League's "Ashes"' 2. The is a seperate page on Super League war, which is referenced in "the advent of television" and "modern times" 3. Will include. 4. Ditto 5. Absoulutley no knowledge of this, don't feel able to write it! 6. Worth a mention. 7. See pt. 5 (sorry) 8. Ditto 9+. Hopoate's stray digit seems a little too specific to include, as do the other mentioned at the end.Grinner 15:13, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

I agree about Hopa's explorations and probably the other sex, drugs and violence scandals.

3 & 4. Would be great if you can do these. 4 is essential

5. Very important for both the game and wider society. Shouldn't be too hard to research on the web. I can do this bit.

7. Don't know anything about it either, but I will have a look.

8. Ditto. Sounds like it's worth a mention. Grant65 (Talk) 22:28, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

Right, I've done Souths and the four/six tackle rule and the Glebe controversy. Cheers for volunteering for the the "four corners", I'll also have a look round for info on it too. Grinner 09:16, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

laws or rules?

Proper rugby has laws instead of rules and you will get told if you call them rules, does the same apply to league? Dunc|☺ 16:14, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Proper rugby? hmmm. Well the RFL seem to call them "Laws".[4]. Grinner 09:1d5, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

Featured article candidate

I think that this has grown into a very impressive article. I'v just made a couple of tweeks to it but that is only because it has been nominated. Following the discussions on the Football#let's bring this up to featured status page/section, I suspect that it might need a couple of more references before it can become a featured article. Also I thing the text in the Introduction should be removed as it only repeats what is in the article lower down. It is too detailed for the introduction and the article is getting close to the recommended 32K limit. Philip Baird Shearer 13:16, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I tend to agree re. the introduction, this was only added in repsonse to an objection as to the lack of a "lead article" on the featured candidates page. Grinner 13:26, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

Failed FAC

Self nomination. A good general article coivering the history and development of the soprt of rugby league. This article has been on peer review for two weeks and some changes suggested there now incorporated. Grinner 10:54, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

• generally support, but it needs a section on union players moving to league (particularly the poaching of the Welsh), perhaps a bit more on geography and demographics. (I'll read it again). Dunc_Harris|☺ 14:09, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC).
  • Section addedGrinner 15:36, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)
• Object. 1) Lead section needs to present a summary of the article (see Wikipedia:Lead section). 2) There are no references, no further reading, no external links. 3) Most of the information needed seems to be in the article, but the organisation is messy. The order of section is mostly chronological, but not entirely, and sections are named for geographic regions. This is confusing and difficult to follow. For example, the "France" section appears to discuss the sport in that country, yet doesn't discuss the French "golden age", which comes forward in "Post-war boom". 4) I feel the World Cup gets comparatively little attention, while I would assume it to be the most important event on the (international) calendar. 5) I would expect a section "before the schism" that briefly summarizes the history of the sport up to that point. This establishes context, while the details can still be read in other articles. Jeronimo 21:38, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Any better? Re. the world cup, sadly I feel it has about the prominence it deserves, unlike other sports the RL version has been sporadic, with a variety of formats, and never really been the pinnacle of international game. Grinner 11:16, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

My issues have been addressed, and I will support, although I have one note: please follow guidelines at Wikipedia:Cite your sources for the references. Jeronimo 07:21, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Object. Needs a copyedit (for example, two consecutive sentences which don't make sense: The most succesful was English wing-cum-full back Jason Robinson, and generally considered that the easier transitions are in the backs. Brad Thorne, a New Zealand forward made a cross-code move, was a rare success, because of the technical forward skills required in union. ) Markalexander100 05:52, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Some errors crept in with the changes made after nomination on this page. I think your copyediting points have now been addressed now. Grinner 09:11, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
• There are still lots of small errors: In 1905, as New Zealand's rugby union team, the All Blacks toured Britain; These games were played under rugby union las, as no copies of the rugby leagues laws were available to the teams.; and there are others. I still think the text needs to be read over more carefully before it's feature-worthy. Markalexander100 02:38, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
• Another sentence which doesn't make sense, and looks like it has been amusingly sabotaged:"The large profits accrued from gambling have never been controversial; many questioned the morality of such an income stream and felt that it would inevitably lead to financial peace and security." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.241.88 (talk) 02:26, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Name "rugby league"

This article currently claims that the first official use of "rugby league" was both in 1901 in England, and 1907 in NSW. The NSW claim does have the qualification "by an organising body", but I would have thought the use described in the "schism in Great Britain" section was by an organising body, just not as the name of an organising body. Could someone please clarify? It seems that something, either here or at Rugby league in Australia needs to be corrected. JPD (talk) 15:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

After GordyB's explanation at User talk:JPD#Rugby league, I have changed the wording slightly. JPD (talk) 15:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

State of Origin

According to the Rugby League State of Origin article, the first proper State of Origin match was played in 1981 not 1980. Chorocobo 08:22, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Sunday Sport

When was it made legal to play on a Sunday? I ask because it was illegal until some time as the players didn't get accident insurance. I would assume that this would be something important in the article. Does anyone know. I googled but didn't get any answers. --Candy (talk) 12:30, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

British Television History

This page is weak on the history of British Rugby League and television, implying that nothing happened until the 1960s. In fact, RL was one of the first mainstream sports to let itself be televised on a regular basis (starting sometime in the early 1950s). —Preceding unsigned comment added by LondonLouis2 (talk • contribs) 12:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Consensus: Field goal, drop goal

Please see discussion here on usage of these terms. LunarLander // talk // 02:09, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Runcorn and Stockport 1895?

According to the article, the foundation year of both Runcorn and, Stockport is 1895. However, Samuel Houghton won an England (RU) cap while at Runcorn in 1892. I believe Runcorn (RU) became Runcorn (RL) in 1895, so they will have existed as an RU club on, or before, 1892. Does anyone know of Runcorn's actual foundation year, and whether Stockport's foundation year is also possibly erroneous? Best Regards. DynamoDegsy (talk) 09:16, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge of part of related article

AnomieBOT has dated the "merge tag" of Jeff97 on the 1897 Challenge Cup Final article for the background section and subsections therein to be merged with this article.

• Support. The article for the Cup final is in my opinion worthy of retention as it seeks to broaden the information available on the early days of Rugby League, especially due to the sparsity of resources for identifying early round ties featuring lesser known teams. That said, the background section does repeat much of what appears in this article. Therefore I would suggest any new information in the Cup Final background not in this article be merged.Rimmer1993 (talk) 15:06, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
• Disagree. The items marked should in my opinion be retained as they give background without having to visit numerous other websitesAlanfromwakefield (talk) 09:58, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
  • The article in question's title is 1897 Challenge Cup. It should contain information related only to the Challenge Cup competition of that year. Do not forget that there is a Challenge Cup article that also deals with the history of the competition. The sections flagged don't even deal with the history of the competition, but rather the History of rugby league has its own article (not to mention additional coverage in Rugby league in England). There couldn't be a more clear-cut merge case.--Jeff79 (talk) 07:09, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Support Merge The current background section should be merged in here. A new background section should then be written to talk about why the challenge cup was being played, was this the first cup? etc etc...actual background on the 1897 challenge cup...Mattlore (talk) 19:37, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Should "the schism" redirect here?

Should The Schism really auto-redirect here? I would have thought the East-West Schism or Schism (A disamb. page) would be better targets. Dr bab (talk) 08:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

I have now changed it to Schism.Dr bab (talk) 13:48, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

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