Talk:Lutjanidae

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Australasian snappers

Removed the foll from the article. A key work on the foll topic is Paulin, Chris D. "Pagrus auratus, a new combination for the species known as "snapper" in Australasian waters (Pisces: Sparidae)" in New Zealand Journal of Marine and Freshwater Research, 1990, Vol. 24:259-265, http://www.rsnz.org/publish/nzjmfr/1990/26.php. The delicious Pagrus auratus deserves its own article one day. BTW they've been recorded at 66 years old (determined from the otolith).

In New Zealand waters, there are two fishes commonly known as Snapper, neither of them members of the family Lutjanidae. Because of a misidentification, they were originally thought to be the same species. One is the Gilthead Seabream, Sparus aurata, the other the Squirefish Chrysophrys auratus. Both are members of the family Sparidae of porgies and sea breams. The Squirefish was named "snapper" by Captain James Cook, and placed in the wrasse genus Labrus by J. R. Forster in work published in 1801. The name snapper (also Cockney Snapper, Golden Snapper, Old Man Snapper, or Pink Snapper) is also used for it in Australia. The Gilthead Seabream has, for many centuries, been called Tamure by the indigenous Maori. --Nurg 09:16, 20 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

name

Why are they called "snappers?" What do they snap at? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.91.64.160 (talk) 19:50, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Move proposal

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moves abound.

Snapper moved to Lutjanidae, Snapper (disambiguation) moved to Snapper, and Lutjanidus merged with Lutjanidae. Keegan^talk 04:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since so many other things are also referred to by the name "snapper", including many other fish outside the family Lutjanidae, I propose that this article be moved to its scientific name, Lutjanidae, so that Snapper (disambiguation) can be moved to "Snapper". --Jwinius (talk) 09:39, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would support that, mainly because in southern Australia, Pagrus auratus (Australasian snapper) is known as snapper. Anyone lacking knowledge in scientific names would not find it on wikipedia. That being said, most other 'snappers' are in the Lutjanidae. I still like your suggestion. I doubt you will get too many other comments here though, fish talk pages tend to be rather quiet. If it is done, the disambig page would need a cleanup to distinguish the different 'snappers' so readers could decide which they are looking for. Kare Kare (talk) 09:49, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well yes I support that too, as well as Kare Kare's comments. See the comment on the use of "snapper" in New Zealand at the top of this page. --Geronimo20 (talk) 11:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Count me another support too; spotted this on WP:RM. All you really need is an admin to carry out the move. BigBlueFish (talk) 14:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, I can't support. Australasian snapper is successfully disambiguated, so are snapping turtles, even if they were not under the scientific name. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:05, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think you entirely miss the point Septentrionalis. Let's put in a way which requires no familiarity with fish: "Snapper" is a widely used term and has 11 million hits on Google. "Lutjanidae" gets just 90 thousand hits, less than 1% of the hits for snapper. From this we can reasonably assume that most of the time when people search for snapper on Wikipedis, they do not have Lutjanidae in mind, and Wikipedia should take them directly to the disambiguation page instead. --Geronimo20 (talk) 03:27, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would draw the opposite conclusion: they often mean the subject of this article, but rarely call it Lutjanidae. By WP:COMMONNAME, we shouldn't either. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strange. Like other guidelines, WP:COMMONNAME pointedly says at the outset to use common sense. If we are not to use common sense then guidelines must become intolerably long trying to manage every situation where common sense might not prevail.

How do you manage to conclude that people "often" mean Lutjanidae when they search on "snapper"? The numbers are over 100:1 against your conclusion, and suggest they they hardly ever mean Lutjanidae.

WP:COMMONNAME also says "use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things". In this case, the fish Lutjanidae is in clear conflict with other fishes also called "snapper". The disambiguation page shows many uses of "snapper" that do not conflict. But when you come to fishes the conflict is clear. I am keen to get this mess cleared up because the conflict between fishes left me confused when I first searched on snapper. This confusion would not have occurred had I been initially presented with the disambiguation page. --Geronimo20 (talk) 21:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the article for Lutjanidae already exits under the name Lutjanus. I suggest that instead of replacing snapper with snapper (disambiguation), we just rewrite ii as a disambiguation page for snapper fishes. --Geronimo20 (talk) 23:15, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.