Talk:Caracol

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Requested move: Caracol, Belize to Caracol

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request.

Administrative; match existing standards: Teotihuacan, Chichen Itza, Cacaxtla, Altun Ha, etc. It's not even for disambig purposes: Caracol redirects here.

Star-War?

"Then, in AD 556 Tikal enacted a ch’ak (axe) war event, and defeated Caracol; this caused Lord Water to enact the first know star-war event in 562..."

The article does not define what a "star-war event" is, and there are no links provided. A search for "star-war + Mayan" only points back to this page. While one might infer that the "axe war event" referred to in the previous sentence was a war fought with axes, what is a star-war event? Were the Mayans chucking shuriken at one another? Had they secretly developed a laser-guided missile_defense system? Had they finally stolen the Death Star plans from the evil Galactic Empire? 71.43.254.122 (talk) 15:01, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I added a sentence trying to clarify this, but it might have broken the flow of the paragraph. Alvaradodavide (talk) 15:28, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Supported and requested by –Hajor 13:55, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I created the page at "Caracol, Belize" as I guessed that a common noun in Spanish was likely to be the name of more than one place, but as nothing needing disambiguation seems to have surfaced, the proposed move is fine by me. --

Done. Thanks. I now need to do some dabbing with Caracol TV, which has a fair number of links pointing here. –Hajor 13:50, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Removal of sentence.

I removed the sentence "Caracol is also a very well known gay, that contributed hardly to the recognition of the gay and homossexual rights " from the beginning of this article on the Mayan city of Caracol, as it did not seem to be either relevant to the topic or appropriately placed. If someone has more information on this other meaning of Caracol, perhaps creating a seperate article or a disambiguity page or something would be more hepful.

24.15.20.14 04:47, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Other places named Caracol

Caracol is actually the name of more than one place for example there is the Caracol at Chichen Itza. So if anyone could insert a general definition/description of caracol that would be great!(----)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Onekacz (talk • contribs) 12 October 2007

Hi, yes there are other places called "(El) Caracol". At the top of this article is what is called a 'hatnote', which directs to the disambiguation page El Caracol that lists alternative meanings for Caracol. The Caracol at Chichen Itza is listed there. Regards, --cjllw ʘ TALK 09:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The word "caracol" is just standard Spanish for "snail". It will never be a term unique to this site.

There's a museum in Mexico City near the castle called the Caracol, as I recall because of the shape of the structure.

There is a musical group called Caracol.

Varlaam (talk) 19:20, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The name

I just visited Caracol and the guide told me that the name came from the shells found littered around the site. He picked up and showed us some white snail shells.

Now I'm not saying he's a reliable source, but at the same time I didn't see a spiral staircase, and so I'm a little confused as to what this sentence refers to:

"It is known as such due to the circular, snail-like inner staircase in the tower."

What tower? This sentence is pretty ambiguous and if someone could make it a little clearer it would be helpful. - David Forster

After reading the wikipedia on Chichen Itza I'm increasingly worried that El Caracol, Belize has been confused with El Caracol at Chichen Itza. - David Forster 200.32.196.41 (talk) 04:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The following site supports the guide: http://www.duplooys.com/mayanruins/caracol.php

- David Forster 200.32.196.41 (talk) 05:01, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was the one who wrote that it was so-named due to the snails found around the site, and it is true.. changing it back.. (talk) 12:18, 03 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Except that, I'm afraid the "snails" explanation is not the one appearing in the archaeological, as opposed to tour-guide, literature, and seems evidently mistaken. Caracol means not just literally "snail" or "shell", but can be used to refer to winding, spiral or volute shapes ("snail-shell-like") shapes in general—like the way "square" can refer to a town square, as well as an actual geometric square. Tour guides and tourism books/sites are not really to be relied upon, since as often as not they just reproduce whatever popularist explanation comes to hand, if they are not actually engendering these in the first place.

While it is clear that it was Anderson the archaeological commissioner for BH who bestowed its name, the snail explanation does not appear in any of the literature based on his reports (Anderson and Satterthwaite who later accompanied him to the site only formally published their records in the early 1950s). The contemporary archaeologists Drs Arlen & Diane Chase who have led the archaeological projects at Caracol note instead that the inspiration came from the winding road leading up to the site's locality, and I'd take them as more authoritative than local guides or Frommer's books. I've amended the explanation to align with the one given by the Chases, and footnoted the snails one as a popular but unsourced alternative.

Not that it's really that important; the only way to be sure would be to consult the original publs. on the site - Anderson's "Archaeology in British Honduras Today" 1952 paper at the 30th International Congress of Americanists, and Satterthwaite's "Reconnaissance in British Honduras" 1951 paper in the University Museum Bulletin. Haven't been able to track down copies of these as yet, they may or may not provide a definitive answer (much of Anderson's notes remain unpublished, I understand). Regards, --cjllw ʘ TALK 06:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clearing that up, clearly the original desciption was a confusion with El Caracol at Chichen Itza. The snail shell explanation is very convincing, I saw first hand (with a little direction) the number of shells on the site. - David Forster ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.242.159.123 (talk) 02:10, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Recent Edits

I don't think the very lengthy, detailed description of every stela and structure at Caracol is really very helpful at all. The user who added it all removed the information that would actually be of interest to most visitors, e.g. visitor numbers, recent developments at the site and replaced it with long-winded information that's only really of interest to professional archaeologists and can just as easily be read on the dig website. Peterforever2 12:47, 14 Dec 2011 (GMT)

I agree that all of the detail on the stelae and other structures does seem rather excessive, particularly for a site I would classify as lesser.

But the data looks valid.

I would prefer to see a subpage called Stelae and structures of Caracol, Belize, or something of that nature. There could already be a conventional name for such a page.

Varlaam (talk) 19:28, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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