Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates
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Glossary[edit]
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality. Nomination steps[edit]
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
Headers[edit]
Voicing an opinion on an item[edit]Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do...[edit]
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Suggesting updates[edit]There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items:
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Archives
[edit]Archives of posted stories: Wikipedia:In the news/Posted/Archives
Sections
[edit]This page contains a section for each day and a sub-section for each nomination. To see the size and title of each section, please expand the following section size summary.
October 22
[edit]
October 22, 2024
(Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
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Cuban protests, blackout, hurricane
[edit]Blurb: Protests occur across Cuba amid a nationwide electrical blackout and the landfall of Hurricane Oscar. (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:
- Nominated by GeorgeMemulous (talk · give credit)
- Updated by ElijahPepe (talk · give credit), Vida0007 (talk · give credit), Scu ba (talk · give credit), Borgenland (talk · give credit) and Quxyz (talk · give credit)
Blackout article is a start class but Oscar is alright. Protests themselves aren't nationwide at the moment, but if they grow in scale then the blurb should be rewritten as such to include them. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 16:38, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support concept, oppose quality article is mostly just bullet points, I'll try to cannibalize a background from the last protest article, but right now I wouldn't say it's good enough for ITN inclusion. Scuba 17:44, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
October 21
[edit]
October 21, 2024
(Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
Science and technology
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Conviction of Alejandro Toledo
[edit]Blurb: Former Peruvian president Alejandro Toledo (pictured) is sentenced to twenty years and six months in prison for receiving bribes from Brazilian engineering conglomerate Odebrecht in the Operation Car Wash. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Former Peruvian president Alejandro Toledo (pictured) is sentenced to twenty years and six months in prison for receiving bribes during Operation Car Wash.
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
- Nominated by ArionStar (talk · give credit)
ArionStar (talk) 02:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle, but oppose on quality due to several completely unsourced paragraphs. Operation Car Wash was a major case of gov't corruption and this is the clear point of closure on that. --Masem (t) 02:26, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Largest known prime
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: An online volunteer project discovers a new largest known prime number, 2136,279,841 − 1. (Post)
Alternative blurb: A new largest known prime number, 2136,279,841 − 1, is discovered.
Alternative blurb II: Researchers discover that the number 2136,279,841 − 1 is prime, the largest such number found to date.
Credits:
- Nominated by Schoen (talk · give credit)
- Support. Major advancement that doesn't happen every year. High encyclopedic value. 104.171.53.110 (talk) 22:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC) (formerly known as ~AH1)
- Support in Principle - doesn't happen all the time and can diversify our feed on ITN. Provisional oppose based on quality, several unsourced statements, though it's otherwise a WP:B-CLASS article. — Knightoftheswords 22:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose due to quality Article needs some ref work done. Would support once issues are fixed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:19, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Is this "in the news" though? I don't know where this is being reported in news sources. I found information about it here: [1], but that is just a press release. Natg 19 (talk) 22:19, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- A quick search shows mainstream sources discussing the 2018 largest prime discovery, so I think this is where it will take a good 24 hr before it shows up in news sources. — Masem (t) 22:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- This is fair. I did not want to hastily oppose for this reason. Natg 19 (talk) 22:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Will probably be a front page splash.... Martinevans123 (talk) 14:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- This is fair. I did not want to hastily oppose for this reason. Natg 19 (talk) 22:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Natg, and also because this is a routine occurrence - it's already known that there are infinitely many primes, and identifying specific large ones is simply a matter of patience and brute force. Unless this own has some interesting properties (beyond being a Mersenne Prime), I don't think this is particularly exciting. GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose I personally love this kind of stuff, but it's something we expect to happen from time to time, and it's therefore not a significant news event. HiLo48 (talk) 22:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- ITN covers expected events all the time, e.g. elections and sports events. On the other hand, nobody knows exactly when the next largest prime number will be found (if at all – one day we'll find the last one we're ever going to find). AVDLCZ (talk) 02:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Wait for news coverage. If organizations cover it, support altblurb2. Notable discovery, and the first in 6 years. Article looks alright. -insert valid name here- (talk) 22:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support it is a very significant event in terms of the advancement of mathematics. Rager7 (talk) 00:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Besides being interesting and an impressive discovery from a process perspective, I don't see the real impact and significance of this dicsovery. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:24, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. This is the fifth time a new highest prime number has been found since 2013. If it was less frequent I'd consider it more notable. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 02:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support if news sources pick this up. New largest known prime number after almost 6 years is certainly not too routine for ITN. AVDLCZ (talk) 02:48, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose DYK candidate This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:19, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support mathematical discoveries are quite rare. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. As far as I can tell, there's no peer-reviewed paper describing this discovery, so all we have is a press release from the team running the search. A paper is required. Also, there's no mainstream media coverage (yet?) and the article updates are just a few numbers updated and an entry in the table. If this was a significant piece of mathematics there should be more to say about it than that. At present it seems to be a mere curio or piece of trivia. DYK would be a better venue than ITN, if the was a suitable new article or expansion of the list. Modest Genius talk 10:46, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose, it happens too often, like six times in last ~10 years, though the recent gap was a bit longer. Also, the target article is kind of general. --Tone 11:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. As others have noted, the result is unpublished and there has been virtually no news coverage. Moreover, the result has no mathematical significance (there are infinitely many primes), and no prospective practical applications in the foreseeable future. Prime numbers are used in cryptography, particularly for the RSA cryptosystem, but the ones that have practical use are much much smaller in bit size than this new one. Nsk92 (talk) 12:44, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose - A prime prerequisite for any nomination on ITN is the existence of news coverage. The apparent paucity of non-primary reliable sources in the proposed nom fares very poorly for this post's prospects. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:54, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose (with free next-day delivery) Is that number close to Jeff Bezos' latest salary?? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- "The real measure of your wealth is how much you’d be worth if you lost all your money."
- - Unknown source (Disclosure: This post was created with the aid of ChatGPT o1-mini) Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:13, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose "Man does maths on computer". This is news? The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 15:29, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Actually found by CHIMPS, it seems. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:34, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Paul Di'Anno
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Daily News,BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Cambalachero (talk · give credit), Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit) and FMSky (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
English heavy metal singer .Needs some work.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:45, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
2024 ICC Women's T20 World Cup final
[edit]Blurb: In cricket, the Women's T20 World Cup concludes with New Zealand defeating South Africa in the final (player of the final Amelia Kerr pictured). (Post)
Alternative blurb: In cricket, New Zealand wins their maiden Women's T20 World Cup title after defeating South Africa in the final (player of the final Amelia Kerr pictured).
Credits:
- Nominated by Vestrian24Bio (talk · give credit)
- Updated by PEditorS10 (talk · give credit), Kumarpramit (talk · give credit), MNWiki845 (talk · give credit), Vestrian24Bio (talk · give credit) and Goodknowme (talk · give credit)
Article updated
We have both Men's and Women's ODI WC at the ITN/R and Men's T20WC as well. Given it had same sort of notability Women's T20WC should be included in the ITN/R as well. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 16:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality a short paragraph on each innings isn't enough to meet WP:ITNQUALITY. If quality is fixed, consider this a support vote on notability. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:11, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Non-ITN sports (of which there are far too many; IMO there should one (1), the World Cup final) . Not global news. Let's not clog up the front page with more needless sports trivia This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. I applaud the drive for better gender equality in sport, and cricket has made big strides in that over recent years. However women's T20I gets a small fraction of the attention that men's T20I does, even more so than the contrast in ODIs. That applies in terms of media coverage, TV audience, in-person spectators, prize money, number of teams etc. For a stark illustration, compare Google searches for 'T20 world cup" in June, when the men's event occurred, vs October when the women's was happening [2]. FWIW, I supported adding the women's ODI world cup to ITNR - that continues to be the highest profile event in women's cricket. If we were to add a second women's cricket item I think the Women's Premier League has a better claim than the WT20 World Cup, though is very new so difficult to assess. Modest Genius talk 16:09, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) 2024 Moldovan European Union membership referendum
[edit]Blurb: Moldova votes to amend the constitution to include the aim of becoming a future EU member. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
- Created and nominated by BastianMAT (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Borgenland (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Moldovans have voted to include the EU membership in the constitution, although this doesn’t mean they become EU member tomorrow, its significant. Important to note in the blurb that the yes vote doesn’t mean EU membership but the constitution being amended to aim for it. BastianMAT (talk) 06:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: I see your point about the significance, but I think until Moldova actually joins the EU, it's not suitable for ITN. APK hi :-) (talk) 06:58, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - Country deciding whether to begin joining the EU is not notable in of itself, when/if Moldova actually joins (long way away due to Transnistria issue) then we can post PrecariousWorlds (talk) 07:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Don't forget Gaguazia who have already said they'd go the way of Transnistria...and after the incumbent's repression, it seems more likely.2A00:F3C:A282:0:EC70:31F1:7740:DC70 (talk) 09:52, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- If some crisis happens with Gaguazia like in 1991 then that's obviously notable but right now there's no indication of this happening PrecariousWorlds (talk) 17:52, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are we sure Transnistria is going to remain as their role model in the future? [3] Super Ψ Dro 23:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Don't forget Gaguazia who have already said they'd go the way of Transnistria...and after the incumbent's repression, it seems more likely.2A00:F3C:A282:0:EC70:31F1:7740:DC70 (talk) 09:52, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose "Country changes constitution to say they'd like to join a political union". Not really headline news. If they ever join, that's a different matter but just expressing a desire to join is no different from the UK saying they'd like to "reset" their relationship with the EU. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 08:24, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The UK isn't in the Russian sphere on influence. It's very different. Secretlondon (talk) 08:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Try telling Dawn Sturgess that. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:39, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The UK doesn't have a part of it's country de facto occupied by Russia nor is it that close. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Agree. So, in this context, a change to the country's constitution might be seen as far more significant. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:00, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I dunno, tell that to all the oligarchs with pied a terres in central London... --Slowking Man (talk) 17:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The UK doesn't have a part of it's country de facto occupied by Russia nor is it that close. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Try telling Dawn Sturgess that. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:39, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The UK isn't in the Russian sphere on influence. It's very different. Secretlondon (talk) 08:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support I'm baffled how anyone can oppose this; we sure posted UK's Brexit referendum how is this any different? Russia wasn't carving up Europe and threatening NATO back then either, at least not to such an extent. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:57, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Since they chose to leave. A decision that was in their hands. Moldova admission in the EU is not in their hands. Baffling how that is not clear. Posting this is like posting any referendum from any state. Ergo, clearly oppose.2A00:F3C:A282:0:EC70:31F1:7740:DC70 (talk) 09:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- And they can choose to join too. They can choose to meet all the criteria and work with the EU and be a part of it. Life changes significantly for the whole country and its population with such a decision. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- If it were the case that the EU said to Moldova, "you can join but only after you amend your constitution to allow that, and then you'd be in", then that would be the reason to post. However, no process has been started at the EU side for the joining. There's a major step to accept their request to join. — Masem (t) 11:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- A democratic mandate is a major step in joining though, no country has so far joined the EU where the majority of people did not favour it as far as I'm aware, and most candidate nations did hold some kind democratic exercise to get approval for joining from the wider public. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- " A slim majority of 50.39% voted "yes" in Moldova's crunch referendum on European Union accession... " per the linked article. Also, this is only an indication that the country will want to be in the EU in its constitution, it doesn't initiate at processes with the EU yet. The country will still have to formally apply, and the EU formally approve. Masem (t) 13:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- A democratic mandate is a major step in joining though, no country has so far joined the EU where the majority of people did not favour it as far as I'm aware, and most candidate nations did hold some kind democratic exercise to get approval for joining from the wider public. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- If it were the case that the EU said to Moldova, "you can join but only after you amend your constitution to allow that, and then you'd be in", then that would be the reason to post. However, no process has been started at the EU side for the joining. There's a major step to accept their request to join. — Masem (t) 11:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- And they can choose to join too. They can choose to meet all the criteria and work with the EU and be a part of it. Life changes significantly for the whole country and its population with such a decision. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Since they chose to leave. A decision that was in their hands. Moldova admission in the EU is not in their hands. Baffling how that is not clear. Posting this is like posting any referendum from any state. Ergo, clearly oppose.2A00:F3C:A282:0:EC70:31F1:7740:DC70 (talk) 09:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, both referendums and constitutional changes seem reasonable ITN news features, bars such as joining the EU are unworkably high-impact events. Article seems well-referenced. CMD (talk) 09:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- So a vote in Moldova is going to get them into the EU when? Do they get to decide so?2A00:F3C:A282:0:EC70:31F1:7740:DC70 (talk) 09:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I don't understand how this is related to my comment. CMD (talk) 09:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- So a vote in Moldova is going to get them into the EU when? Do they get to decide so?2A00:F3C:A282:0:EC70:31F1:7740:DC70 (talk) 09:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Seems newsworthy. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support - Very like the Brexit referendum (but facing the other way) - this provides a clear statement of national intent with a verifiable source, on a subject which may take a very long time to come to maturity. Waiting for EU accession isn't sensible; this is the story right now. (I don't believe that either constitutional amendments or national referendums should automatically be posted to ITN, but they definitely deserve serious consideration, and this one clears the bar for me.) GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Because this action needs agreement by the EU body before joining can actually happen, this is far too soon to post. Comparison to Brexit is bad because there, the only action that needed to be taken was the vote by the people to withdraw from the EU, no EU action was necessary as a second step to allow for them to leave. --Masem (t) 12:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The EU did need to undertake actions in order to facilitate Brexit, the UK didn't just take off and leave, it was/still is an incredibly slow and complex process. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- errrrmm.... was it ever properly finished?? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:10, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The vote by the UK ppl was the point of no return. While there is formal steps required to have an agreement between the EU and UK on leaving, no action the EU would have stopped it, at worst, the EU/UK could have ended without any formal agreement post brexit in place. In this case, the EU must still formally approve the membership, so there is at least one more step thst will be ITN worthy, and we usually wait until that point of no return to post stories like this. Masem (t) 13:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- There is a point of return, the UK can apply to rejoin at any moment. The same way if Moldova approves this constitutional change it can unapprove such a decision in another referendum should it wish to do so at a later date. Brexit shows you can join or leave if a country wishes to do so, however neither is immediate nor permanent. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- This is completely untrue. The Brexit referendum was indicative rather than binding. The point of no return was the invocation of Article 50 in 2017. Similarly, this provision in Moldova is permissive rather than definitive - only an invitation from the EU and its subsequent acceptance would be binding. But like the Brexit referendum itself, this (quite narrowly) indicates a national direction of travel and sets a national and international policy agenda. And so I consider it highly newsworthy for the same reason. GenevieveDEon (talk) 15:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- The EU did need to undertake actions in order to facilitate Brexit, the UK didn't just take off and leave, it was/still is an incredibly slow and complex process. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support- in the news, covered by NYT, CNN, The Kyiv Independent, Politico, The Guardian, WaPo, Le Monde, among others; many of those sites having multiple articles on the topic. Very clearly in the news. Abusing WP:CRYSTAL just opens the floodgates for not having anything on ITN, since you could argue that nothing can be posted since there's a chance that nothing will happen. IMHO, even if Moldova doesn't join the EU, this is still a big step and notable contemporary news story with a decent article that can be highlighted on the main page and interest readers searching for the topic or who are unaware. It would be better for us to have posted on ITN the results of this referendum even if Moldova doesn't join the EU than for us to have not posted it if Moldova did actually formally join.
- Also totally agree with the folks making Brexit comparisons; you could have easily argued that we didn't know if Brexit was going to amount to anything as well (look at how convoluted and drawn out the actual leave process was). More evidence of the decline of grounded quality measures on this part of the MP over the past decade. — Knightoftheswords 12:52, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support very newsworthy, especially with the Pro-Russian camp openly cheating, and still losing. Scuba 13:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support With every nomination we see blanket opposition to posting just about any news. This is getting ridiculous. What's the point of ITN? We have a decent article, it's a national-level, constitutional referendum. It's in the news. I actually fail to understand what credible argument could possibly be against including this. If and when they ultimately join us utterly irrelevant. AusLondonder (talk) 13:22, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support This constitutional amendment is not only a change in the wording of Moldova's Carta Magna, but the submission of future governments to Europeanist aspirations and the elevation of these aspirations to a question of State in a country constantly threatened by Putin lately, which has a conflictive region on its borders (Transnistria) and which in recent years has aspired as never before to become part of the European bloc. Whether or not it finally joins the EU, which will not be possible in the short or medium term, is not decisive for the notoriety of this referendum. The article is in good condition, it is a news that opens covers in the international news sections and it is a historic result at regional level and important for other countries such as Georgia, Armenia or Bosnia. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support for most of the world, referendums are not a common event. Banedon (talk) 14:06, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support I sympathize with the gist of the oppose argument, and I actually agree that there is nothing inherently notable about a referendum of this sort. In this specific case, however, there is a higher degree of news coverage and notability because of the realpolitik and geopolitical implications of Moldova specifically gravitating towards western influence. Moldova is a former SSR. This move could have ramifications for Russian foreign policy towards the rest of Eastern Europe beyond Ukraine - and so, the news is covering it, as should we. FlipandFlopped ツ 16:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support This is a pro-Western result in a country that experiences a lot of Russian influence & it’s being covered in a lot of reliable sources. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 17:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- So wiki is a langley propaganda outlet?2A00:F3C:A282:0:E9:3397:700C:5AD1 (talk) 14:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think I am swayed by the arguments in support: just think it's important the blurb doesn't mislead readers (many who will read only the blurb that's it) and is clear this isn't the Official Formal Important Big-Time Start to a formal process, but essentially a statement of aspiration. Also whew, given that vote tally I think "narrowly vote" is definitely called for here. When you're reporting a 50% tally with two decimal places, for a two-option ballot question, that's about as close as elections get. Again, here I think not conveying that information of "very close result" in blurb has potential to mislead—it is very very well-known in journalism that often the majority of people only read headlines, so be certain to put anything you for-sure-no-joke want conveyed, in that headline. Also also, E. Europe topics are ah one of those Controversial Topic Areas w/ plenty of WP history around them so more eyes watching such areas when they show up on Main always good (are there any sanctions currently affecting this, asking for self and general awareness) --Slowking Man (talk) 17:45, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support clearly in the news and significant enough. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Moldova was already accepted as a candidate for EU membership and so this event doesn't change much. It's mostly internal politics, trying to lock in the current trajectory. If the opposition parties were to take power then this constitutional amendment still couldn't force them to continue the process of membership against their will. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Turkey has been an official candidate since 1999 and started applying as far back as 1959 yet they haven't taken any steps towards membership such as a popular vote. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- yes, they have -- see 2010 Turkish constitutional referendum. It doesn't appear that that was posted at ITN. And, despite it being passed, Turkey is still not a member. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Remember what you were doing fourteen years ago? I hope part of that time was spent participating in that key ITN/C discussion on the 2010 Turkish constitutional referendum, whose outcome the users back then knew damn well would establish an earth-shattering, long-standing precedence for what to post on ITN for many, many years to come. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 19:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I was going by the article's talk page, which doesn't have an ITN notice. But checking further, I find that the Turkish referendum was posted at ITN -- see Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/September 2010#Turkish constitutional referendum, 2010. But here we are 14 years later and Turkey is still not a member. Myself, I was otherwise engaged, creating Alison Wolf, Baroness Wolf of Dulwich. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm sure Alison will be eternally grateful. Looking forward to posting "Turkey joins the EU", when it happens (wolves permitting, of course). Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I was going by the article's talk page, which doesn't have an ITN notice. But checking further, I find that the Turkish referendum was posted at ITN -- see Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/September 2010#Turkish constitutional referendum, 2010. But here we are 14 years later and Turkey is still not a member. Myself, I was otherwise engaged, creating Alison Wolf, Baroness Wolf of Dulwich. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Remember what you were doing fourteen years ago? I hope part of that time was spent participating in that key ITN/C discussion on the 2010 Turkish constitutional referendum, whose outcome the users back then knew damn well would establish an earth-shattering, long-standing precedence for what to post on ITN for many, many years to come. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 19:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- yes, they have -- see 2010 Turkish constitutional referendum. It doesn't appear that that was posted at ITN. And, despite it being passed, Turkey is still not a member. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:02, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Turkey has been an official candidate since 1999 and started applying as far back as 1959 yet they haven't taken any steps towards membership such as a popular vote. Abcmaxx (talk) 18:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Regardless of the outcome, it is notable in European and Moldovan politics and history. If Moldova succeeds in joining then it would be a new addition to the EU membership. If it fails, then it starts the precedent of Moldova attempts of joining the European Union. Rager7 (talk) 21:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- No, it hasn't started anything. See Accession of Moldova to the European Union. That started with an application in 2022 and formal negotiations started in June 2024. There are six structural reforms required by the EU. Changing the constitution isn't one of them. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:42, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support key referendum that, had it failed, could have unexpectedly shaken the legitimacy of the current government that had been doing well in the polls. Moldova is a country widely described by international observers as between the West and Russia. This was an important event in regional geopolitics. I find the following quote related to the latter interesting: "Georgia is watching Moldova and if the West fails in Chișinău, Tbilisi is next" [Georgia is having a parliamentary election this Saturday]. The referendum is even more notable with the allegations of Russian interference. And lastly I think it's just interesting that the vote ended with such a narrow result, which challenged all expectations and had an insanely uncertain counting up until the last moments. Super Ψ Dro 23:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Based on my last point, and agreeing with much of what Slowking Man said, I think we should reflect how close the vote was in the blurb. It could be enough to simply add "narrowly" before "votes". Even the narrow victory has implications for the current government as an overwhelming victory was widely expected. BastianMAT, what do you think? Super Ψ Dro 23:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- You certainly make a good point, I added an alt blurb with the word narrowly now, but it is up to the community to decide as the most important is that we convey the result of the referendum: that a constitutional amendment will be made. BastianMAT (talk) 14:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Based on my last point, and agreeing with much of what Slowking Man said, I think we should reflect how close the vote was in the blurb. It could be enough to simply add "narrowly" before "votes". Even the narrow victory has implications for the current government as an overwhelming victory was widely expected. BastianMAT, what do you think? Super Ψ Dro 23:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 02:00, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose and pull per APK, Precarious Worlds and others above. Not remotely a significant story for ITN. If and when they join, that's when we'd post this. — Amakuru (talk) 08:17, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's clear consensus to post. ITN is for profiling articles in the news. A national constitutional referendum with a good article. That's perfect for ITN. AusLondonder (talk) 08:52, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- If you count votes, you don't count votes, the merits of the arguements matter. Like that one above who said it is "pro-western against russia".2A00:F3C:A282:0:E9:3397:700C:5AD1 (talk) 14:29, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, Russia didn't want it to happen. And when it did happen, they tried their best to steal the result. So if the extra tiny bit of publicity on the Main page here means we're "anti-Russian", so be it. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:47, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- If you count votes, you don't count votes, the merits of the arguements matter. Like that one above who said it is "pro-western against russia".2A00:F3C:A282:0:E9:3397:700C:5AD1 (talk) 14:29, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Pull - Amakuru's rationale has swayed me, I believe this posting was too premature. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 17:23, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
October 20
[edit]
October 20, 2024
(Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Politics and elections
Sports
|
RD: Paul White, Baron Hanningfield
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Ravenpuff (talk · give credit) and Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
British politician and life peer.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 13:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Unsuitable at the moment, has entire unsourced section (Lobbying for rural communities) and cn tags. Some sentences are unsourced in the section about his false expenses claims and imprisonment. AusLondonder (talk) 13:35, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
Oppose needs serious source work. Scuba 14:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
Support Citations added, article in good shape. Scuba 15:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)- Support I think I have added sources to cover the issues raised by @Scu ba: and removed some of the PROMO barrister references so it should be OK now. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 15:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Fethullah Gülen
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ReutersWashington Post
Credits:
- Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Turkish Muslim scholar. Article says died on Sunday.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:47, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability. Shadow4dark (talk) 08:54, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Could one argue that this deserves a blurb? Not sure myself. QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 12:41, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb all the 2016 allegations remain that, allegations. Scuba 13:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think he is well-known in TR, and not that much outside of it, not someone I'd immediately think of as "oh yeah obvious RD blurb", but I'm plenty willing to listen to contrary arguments Slowking Man (talk) 17:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD Major figure in Turkey in past decade.--A bit iffy (talk) 20:24, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Orange-tagged for need of a "cleanup rewrite". --205.189.58.84 (talk) 00:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Kakurokuna tagged it in 2017 with the edit summary "starts strong but then really tapers off."[4] It needs to be resolved or make an editorial decisio to remove the tag if it's no longer applicable. —Bagumba (talk) 05:44, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hold RD for quality reasons. Oppose blurb - not a serving political leader. OLDMANDIES. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:22, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) 2024 Indonesian general election
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Prabowo Subianto is elected President of Indonesia (Post)
News source(s): al-Jazeera
Credits:
- Nominated by Abo Yemen (talk · give credit)
- Oppose: The election was already posted when it occurred. I don't believe we post inaugurations. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 16:27, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
October 19
[edit]
October 19, 2024
(Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
|
RD: Thelma Mothershed-Wair
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP News
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:1813:3939:3F14:36B (talk · give credit)
- Updated by CAWylie (talk · give credit) and Strattonsmith (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American activist and member of Little Rock Nine. 240F:7A:6253:1:1813:3939:3F14:36B (talk) 13:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose no infobox, Early life uncited, wikipedia article is only reference in Little Rock Nine. Scuba 17:14, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Michel Klein (veterinarian)
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:
- Nominated by Thriley (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
French veterinarian and animal rights activist often seen on television. Needs expansion. Thriley (talk) 17:22, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. The stubbiest of the stubs. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:55, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment He was 103. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:13, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- and? does that mean he should be posted? I don't know what the point of this comment is. Natg 19 (talk) 03:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. He was the French counterpart to David Attenborough or Marlin Perkins. They where celebrities and TV icons of their time, and influenced generations of people for animal welfare, zoology and conservation with a lasting legacy. Just because he survived 20+ more years and amlost nobody under 30 remembers him is no reason to disregard him. 47.67.225.78 (talk) 12:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose since article is currently a stub. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 14:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article has been expanded since the nomination was originally posted… it’s not a huge article but it’s of reasonable quality. RachelTensions (talk) 17:14, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's still a stub though, it hasn't really been expanded. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 07:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- When first nominated this article was about 6 words long, so yes it has been significantly expanded. RD criteria isn’t looking for a perfect article, a short article of decent quality and sourcing is just fine. RachelTensions (talk) 12:32, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's still a stub though, it hasn't really been expanded. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 contribs 07:31, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose not only is it a stub, with only 1 notable reliable reference it fails WP:BIO citation guidelines. Scuba 17:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well this is just patently untrue. The sources cited in the article are from BFM TV (France's largest news channel), Le Monde (a French newspaper of record), Le Parisien (another large French newspaper), Le Point Vétérinaire (a widely regarded French veterinary industry publication), and Canadian Veterinary Journal (a peer-reviewed scientific journal). Almost every statement in the article is sourced and all sources easily meet WP:RS. RachelTensions (talk) 19:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. It is notable that the "support" arguments are about the topic, while the "opposition" just argues about the lenght of the article, as if that relies to the noteworthyness of the news of his death. 47.67.225.78 (talk) 08:51, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well this is just patently untrue. The sources cited in the article are from BFM TV (France's largest news channel), Le Monde (a French newspaper of record), Le Parisien (another large French newspaper), Le Point Vétérinaire (a widely regarded French veterinary industry publication), and Canadian Veterinary Journal (a peer-reviewed scientific journal). Almost every statement in the article is sourced and all sources easily meet WP:RS. RachelTensions (talk) 19:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
2024 America's Cup
[edit]Blurb: Team New Zealand wins the America's Cup yacht racing competition for a third time in succession. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Team New Zealand wins the America's Cup yacht racing competition for a third time in succession by defeating the Royal Yacht Squadron.
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:
- Nominated by Schwede66 (talk · give credit)
Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
The article needs some TLC and I hope that somebody can attend to it; personally, sailing doesn't spin my wheels. Schwede66 01:26, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: The event is known and branded as the 37th America's Cup. JoltColaOfEvil (talk) 22:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Needs major update; lots about qualifying, background, challengers, but very little about the cup races themselves and no aftermath or results sections, nothing about the coverage of the event. Abcmaxx (talk) 22:18, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready. Unfortunately I agree with Abcmaxx - this needs to be updated. The 'cup match' section - i.e. the actual event - has just two sentences of prose, and those are in future tense! Needs a couple of referenced paragraphs explaining what happened during each stage, the final outcome etc. Modest Genius talk 11:06, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Wait the actual target, the cup match, has yet to be included in the article. Scuba 17:17, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment For reference, see the previous 2021 America's Cup § Cup match (more text after table)—Bagumba (talk) 05:54, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality and suggest that there are far too many ITN sports. The Americas Cup, prestigious as it may be among sailors, is not world news. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:28, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Yemeni civil war (2014–present)
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.cfr.org/index.php/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/war-yemen, Various
Credits:
- Nominated by Wafflefrites (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Comment — Are you seeking to add the Yemeni civil war to ongoing? If so, you will need to provide continuous and significant coverage. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 21:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment assuming this meant ongoing it would be difficult to keep up to date and keep there considering the challenge of reliable information about it 27.96.223.193 (talk) 22:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support in principle but oppose on quality This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 23:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose This is a very slow event, with the pages showing far less than expected of close-to-daily updates to merit a slot in ongoing. It needs to be something that has news coverage nearly every day and stays updated to reflect that. --Masem (t) 00:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Masem. Bitspectator ⛩️ 00:58, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose only 5 edits to the article the article this month and most of them are just fixing typos. Looking through the first page of edits that date back to June I don't see a single substantial edit that has added any new newsworthy events... "ongoing" would suggest that there are frequent newsworthy events, so frequent that they'd otherwise overwhelm ITN if not for the fact that they'd already be covered by the topic's "ongoing" placement. RachelTensions (talk) 01:05, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support the idea, oppose in practice Yes the war in Yemen is just as relevant and valid as the war in Sudan or in Israel, however, almost nobody is editing it, and there really hasn't been any significant development coinciding with it's nomination. Scuba 04:33, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose there has been an ongoing truce since
20212022. There have been no new battles as far as I am aware Abo Yemen✉ 11:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Abo Yemen: Shouldn't the article make this clear then and even be called Yemeni civil war (2014–2021) if its now only a low-level insurgency? Abcmaxx (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- The article does mention the truce, but that doesn't mean the war is completely over as the truce is between the houthis and the internationally recognized govt but not the other factions like al-qaeda, for example Abo Yemen✉ 04:42, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Abo Yemen: Shouldn't the article make this clear then and even be called Yemeni civil war (2014–2021) if its now only a low-level insurgency? Abcmaxx (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support notability but oppose on quality The article does not make it clear how intense the fighting is currently, does not show if anything has happened since 2021, and if Abo Yemen's comment above is true then the article should really make this clear. Background and introduction of a complex geopolitical situation is welcome, but the article really does not describe much of the actual war itself. Abcmaxx (talk) 22:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
October 18
[edit]
October 18, 2024
(Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
|
(Posted) RD: Rick Nolan
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit) and TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Former US Congressman. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 21:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article in good shape, fixed last cn tags. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 06:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support other than a few minor issues with prose the article looks good. Scuba 17:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Ginés González García
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Nación, CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by Cambalachero (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Alsoriano97 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Minister of health of Argentina during the COVID-19 pandemic. Cambalachero (talk) 18:32, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'm working on this article, improving its content and sources. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- work done. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks decent, no glaring issues. Scuba 15:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 02:54, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Internet Archive cyberattack
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: The Internet Archive suffered a DDoS attack that made its services unusable since October 9, compromising the data of 31 million users. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, NBC, Forbes,
Credits:
- Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)
- Created by MountainDew20 (talk · give credit)
- This story was already nominated when it occurred, and rejected from ITN. Being over a week old makes it stale news, so even less likely to be posted. I recommend withdrawing this nomination. Modest Genius talk 14:09, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose and best withdrawn per above. Rejected, stale, and the page is in no shape to be posted anyway. Estreyeria (talk) 14:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose duplicate rejected and stale nom as per Modest Genius. GhostStalker (Got a present for ya! / Mission Log) 14:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
October 17
[edit]
October 17, 2024
(Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
International relations
Law and crime
Politics and elections
|
RD: Andrew Schally
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:
- Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:DC9A:82E2:FE53:A327 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Polish-American endocrinologist and Nobel laureate. 240F:7A:6253:1:DC9A:82E2:FE53:A327 (talk) 23:10, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) Rigathi Gachagua impeachment
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Kenyan Deputy President Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached in a landmark vote. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached as the deputy president of Kenya by the parliament.
Alternative blurb II: In Kenya, deputy president Rigathi Gachagua (pictured) is impeached by the parliament.
News source(s): france 24
Credits:
- Nominated by Sportsnut24 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by MAL MALDIVE (talk · give credit)
Article needs updating
- Support Seems fine. MAL MALDIVE (talk) 08:55, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- There probably should be at least a paragraph or more explaining why he was impeached, not just that he was. There's no clear indication what brought the impeachment charges. --Masem (t) 11:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. As far as I can tell, this is domestic politics with no broader impact, and the deputy president has few powers anyway. There's little coverage in international media. It's possible that I'm missing some wider significance, but if so it isn't explained in the article, this nomination or the France 24 article provided above. Modest Genius talk 14:15, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support notability, oppose on quality impeachments are rare and notable events, however, really there should be a comprehensive article called Impeachment of Rigathi Gachagua which outlines all the background, issues, causes, aftermath and reactions accordingly. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Modest Genius. It also seems like local news to me. It may have been notable if it was the president who was impeached. LiamKorda 17:26, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Per abcmaxx Ion.want.uu (talk) 20:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose: Only the deputy president. C F A 💬 03:12, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose - not a head of state LocoTacoFever (talk) 21:40, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support notability, oppose on quality per Abcmaxx. I would also be satisfied with further expansion of the current target article in lieu of an independent article; either could work. FlipandFlopped ツ 16:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Soft oppose deputy president, not president. Unless I'm missing something this isn't really a major geopolitical event. Scuba 17:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Philip Zimbardo
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Legacy
Credits:
- Nominated by TheCorriynial (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Philip Zimbardo died on 14th, but announced today. Philip Zimbardo, a psychologist conducted the now mostly discredited Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971 which at the time was studying the effect on situational variables on participants' reactions and behaviors. The experiment is now an example of what not to do in psychological studies. He's also been involved in several other studies in more recent years and is also a writer. TheCorriynial (talk) 23:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support The article seems fine. And his experiment sounds just like Wikipedia, showing "...the ease with which ordinary people could be led to engage in anti-social acts by putting them in situations where they felt anonymous, or they could perceive of others in ways that made them less than human, as enemies or objects..." Andrew🐉(talk) 08:27, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's no fun in solitary... (you don't even get access to your bucket).Martinevans123 (talk) 08:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support: I have added/tweaked a couple of references. Good article and clearly notable subject. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Looks good. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, as the article is well-sourced and notable. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article seems all right to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose 30–40% of Philip Zimbardo § Works missing ISBN, ISSN, or some citation. A few even display "ISBN" with no subsequent ID.—Bagumba (talk) 04:41, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- These details are not needed as there's an {{authority control}}. For example, the first entry is "Influencing attitude and changing behavior: A basic introduction to relevant methodology, theory, and applications (Topics in social psychology), Addison Wesley, 1969". This is already quite adequate but, if it should still be doubted then one can just uses the authority control to find an entry like this. The entry is quite uncontroversial and so does not require an extraordinary level of referencing. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Readers on mobile, which accounts for at at least half the viewers, dont see that, and it's anyways a WP:LINKFARM on where an item might actually be verified. ITN is as much a drive to get pages enhanced. If the info is, in fact, readily available, adding it should be straightforward, and an improvement. In any event, feel free to establish a wider consensus for a looser standard. —Bagumba (talk) 10:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- These details are not needed as there's an {{authority control}}. For example, the first entry is "Influencing attitude and changing behavior: A basic introduction to relevant methodology, theory, and applications (Topics in social psychology), Addison Wesley, 1969". This is already quite adequate but, if it should still be doubted then one can just uses the authority control to find an entry like this. The entry is quite uncontroversial and so does not require an extraordinary level of referencing. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. Clear ready with exception for the Works section, which has been updated (by me). No further reason to hold up the posting. – robertsky (talk) 01:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Mitzi Gaynor
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:
- Nominated by Staraction (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
American actress, singer, and dancer. Article likely needs more citation work. Staraction (talk | contribs) 21:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article is barely cited, some of the CN tags are dated to 2012... that's bad. Scuba 21:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article does need work as the nominator mentioned. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:51, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Toshiyuki Nishida
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Japan Times
Credits:
- Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Japanese Actor.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Soft oppose Filmography missing sources, career is lacking prose. Scuba 21:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose unsourced honors and filmography. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
October 16
[edit]
October 16, 2024
(Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Law and crime
|
(Posted) RD: Sukh Dev
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Gujarat Samachar (India)
Credits:
- Nominated by Ktin (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit), Aumnamahashiva (talk · give credit), Tachs (talk · give credit) and Pravega (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Indian scientist. Article seems to be alright. Ktin (talk) 01:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good. Scuba 02:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article seems fine to me. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 12:18, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) Yahya Sinwar
[edit]Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Hamas de facto leader Yahya Sinwar reportedly killed in an Israeli operation. (Post)
Alternative blurb: Yahya Sinwar, the acting leader of Hamas, is killed in an Israeli operation.
Alternative blurb II: Yahya Sinwar, the acting leader of Hamas, is killed in a firefight with Israeli forces in Gaza.
News source(s): Bloomberg
Credits:
- Nominated by mike_gigs (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Confirmed killed by IDF via Bloomberg ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 16:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- If confirmed by RS, I would support this.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support covered by all major sources by now Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 17:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. I think all Wikipedias will add it on the main page. A.WagnerC(alt) (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb. Quality seems okay and RSs have confirmed the death with photos in addition to the Israeli claims. The internal leader of Hamas for nearly a decade, and more recently the overall leader. Killing of major leaders in wars merit posting even though the war might be in ongoing (e.g. Nasrallah's death despite the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict being stickied). ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 17:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support if confirmed by Hamas and RS + a better blurb is used (came here to nominate it, found it already nominated) Abo Yemen✉ 17:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Note His article is in decent shape, but as of this comment it has not been updated to state definitively that he is dead. Support Blurb on updating and confirmation from sources other than Israel. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, but strongly oppose blurb. This is covered by ongoing Israel-Hamas war. We have consistently not blurbed the large scale killing of civilians in Gaza, and we should remain consistent and not suddenly decide to blurb this.VR (Please ping on reply) 17:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb per VR. Combatant dies in combat in a conflict that we have listed under Ongoing already - despite Sinwar being a notable figure, this isn’t a unique/unusual situation in the way the assassinations of Haniyeh/Nasrallah were (and iirc, Nasrallah was posted before the Israel-Hezbollah conflict was in Ongoing). The Kip (contribs) 18:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, though - article seems sufficiently cited/updated. The Kip (contribs) 18:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Pending further confirmation, Support Blurb as article in decent shape (bit too much proseline but not a blocker) and clearly a major event in the Gaza situation. Side unrelated comment as i see no reason for the separate death article to load up on repeated BG and excessive reactions, but that's beyond the remit of ITN outside of avoiding a blurb that links to it. Masem (t) 18:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I will make this more explicit since alt blurbs use it, I Oppose including the killing article as the featured one. It's typical of the slicing and dicing of news stories to far too much detail for and encyclopedia, with excessive BG and reaction sections, when the actual events are all of four paragraphs. Some of that reaction is likely better in the context of the larger conflict, but making the event standalone, particularly when it was less of an organized plan and more a chance happenstance, it's not a good summary of the news as we should be writing. — Masem (t) 18:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Confirmed now by Israel, headline news now and significant enough in its own right, rising above routine updates in the ongoing Israel–Hamas war. Brandmeistertalk 18:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I've added an altblurb with a link to the article on his death. As nominator, I am pretty indifferent to blurbing since I agree it is covered by ongoing, but he is also a very high ranking individual. ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 18:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Added an altblurb. Current wording implies the operation was to find and kill him, but it seems the encounter was happenstance. I'm indifferent about blurbing as well. Bitspectator ⛩️ 18:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Pachu Kannan (talk) 18:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Blurb vs RD - Yes, it's part of a conflict/war that's listed in Ongoing, but when the leader of one of the side in the conflict/war is killed, it's very much significant on its own and on top of the Ongoing. And yes, we very much posted the killing of Hassan Nasrallah. If Russia managed to take out Zelenskyy or Ukraine managed to take out Putin, are people seriously suggesting we wouldn't blurb that? -- KTC (talk) 18:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb per Patar Knight FlipandFlopped ツ 18:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support with blurb maybe we should make a page about his killing and make that the target article. Scuba 19:09, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb, but wait pending further conformation. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 19:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb—De facto leader of Hamas and the Gaza Strip since 2017, thereby making him a very significant political figure whose death is highly consequential. Kurtis (talk) 19:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Kurtis He's only been the head of Hamas for a few months, since Haniyeh's assassination. The Kip (contribs) 20:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- But he's been in charge of the Gaza Strip since 2017. He's also the presumed mastermind of the October 7th attacks. Sorry, probably should have worded that more carefully. Kurtis (talk) 08:25, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Kurtis He's only been the head of Hamas for a few months, since Haniyeh's assassination. The Kip (contribs) 20:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD and neutral on blurb since he was a serving head of government making him one of the few that should qualify in theory for RDB IMO This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 20:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hamas in no way is a government body. Masem (t) 20:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hamas was, at least, the de facto authority in the Gaza Strip prior to the beginning of the war. We would certainly post if the Prime Minister of Kosovo was assassinated. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 21:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hamas in no way is a government body. Masem (t) 20:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb. Sure, the conflict is in ongoing, but Sinwar was one of the principal leaders—arguably, the foremost leader—of one of the conflict's main belligerents. This is a notable enough update in the conflict to merit a blurb. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb II. Primary leader of one of the war’s two main belligerents dying is pretty significant. Altblurb II makes it clear he wasn’t assassinated, while other blurbs could lead readers to believe he was like Haniyeh or Nasrallah. Jone425 (talk) 21:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb as confirmed by WP:RS. Achmad Rachmani (talk) 23:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted altblurb II. I've made some changes to the links, expanding the boldlink to cover "killed in a firefight" and linking "Israeli forces in Gaza" to Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip. ITN admins, feel free to copyedit for consistency. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Matia Chowdhury
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New AgeDhaka Tribune
Credits:
- Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
- Updated by GreenRedFlag (talk · give credit), CosmLearner (talk · give credit) and Kelisi (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bangladesh Politician.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 01:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not ready While the article all the necessary details, but, they need to be written in a more neutral manner. Example:
Matia's boldness, leadership, and courage shine through her frontline participation (...) Her fiery speeches and unwavering attitude (...)
ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:58, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Can you take a look at this Please.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 22:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- So far I got this link https://www.bssnews.net/news/69972. GreenRedFlag (talk) 09:54, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Tina Kaidanow
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Koha
Credits:
- Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, everything looks sourced. Suonii180 (talk) 22:44, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Article is a bit short but there is a sufficient amount of good references. Vida0007 (talk) 12:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Adequately sourced, ready for RD. FlipandFlopped ツ 18:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support per above. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 16:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Is there a source for the DoB shown in the intro and the infobox, please? The footnote should be in the main prose. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 10:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- The year is sourced. I didn't hold this as any more significant than any other Cn, though I know some posters do. —Bagumba (talk) 10:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- I got the unreferenced date hidden for now. --PFHLai (talk) 12:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- The year is sourced. I didn't hold this as any more significant than any other Cn, though I know some posters do. —Bagumba (talk) 10:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 10:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed, RD posted): Liam Payne
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: English singer Liam Payne (pictured) dies at the age of 31 (Post)
Alternative blurb: English singer Liam Payne (pictured), previously of One Direction, dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony in Buenos Aires.
Alternative blurb II: English singer Liam Payne (pictured) dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony in Buenos Aires.
News source(s): CNN, ABC News, CTV News
Credits:
- Nominated by RachelTensions (talk · give credit)
- Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
- Strong support blurb Alrighty, here we got a relatively young sudden death from an unusual circumstance (fall of the balcony due to possible intoxication see enwiki article). 1D was definitely an influential band during the 2010s and being a member of said and the circumstances of his death does merit a blurb.
In terms of article, there's 2-3 cn tags and the filmography/awards section needs some ref work first.--TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC) - Support blurb Definitely notable, on pretty much every big news site in the world already. Article needs some work with refs but other than that looks fine. harrz talk 22:18, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you supporting RD or a blurb? If you are supporting RD, note that anyone with an article is considered notable, and the focus is on article quality.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post
. Natg 19 (talk) 22:25, 16 October 2024 (UTC)- I'm supporting a blurb - sorry, I misunderstood the nomination. harrz talk 22:53, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you supporting RD or a blurb? If you are supporting RD, note that anyone with an article is considered notable, and the focus is on article quality.
- Support blurb If it was a typical death of natural causes which was not unexpected, probably not notable enough within his field to get a blurb. However, in this case the highly unusual nature of death + the "shock" of death at a young age, generate excess levels of news coverage and push it across. FlipandFlopped ツ 22:33, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
Oppose until sourcing issues are fixed. I've added refs for the two cn tags but the filmography and Awards and nominations sections still need more refs.Suonii180 (talk) 22:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)- Forgot to specify that I would support both RD and blurb once sources have been added. Suonii180 (talk) 22:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Suonii180:
Fixed filmography section. There's three left for awards section that I'm working on.Everything's sourced now. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:00, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Suonii180:
- Support now that sourcing is fixed. Suonii180 (talk) 23:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Forgot to specify that I would support both RD and blurb once sources have been added. Suonii180 (talk) 22:45, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb Not notable enough to get a blurb. --CommanderShepardX (talk) 23:13, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @CommanderShepardX: The argument for a blurb in this case isn't if Payne was 'notable enough' it's more about the uncommon circumstances surrounding his death and the fact he was relatively young. See argument below. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb Per Flipandflopped. OctaviusSlockpit (talk) 23:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb - Going to go against the grain here. Once the article issues are addressed the article should definitely go on RD, but as big as One Direction was, I'm skeptical that a blurb is warranted. Usually we'd reserve it for the biggest of the big, and while One Direction was big in their day I'm not sure if he'd count in this case. I don't want to go OSE here and all but many other arguably more deserving people only got an RD mention and not a blurb, so him getting a blurb would seem unfair, even arguably Anglocentric. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:27, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: To be fair, the argument for a blurb in this case is mainly directed towards the manner of his death which is unusual especially for someone at the age of 31 not about how influential he was or for being a 1D member. When someone old dies and gets nominated for a blurb, there's the 'old person dies, what's new' argument. Now that we have a younger, relatively popular singer who dies at the age of 31 after falling from a hotel balcony...I think that's the blurb of the story. Also: "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." Also the article's in good shape now in terms of quality. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb — Not a significant figure. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:27, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
As we all know, no one but Trump is significant to you...LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 23:51, 16 October 2024 (UTC)- I'm not sure what this insinuation is supposed to mean. I have opposed virtually every ITN nomination about Trump since he was indicted in New York. If Trump were to die, I would support a blurb, as I would for any current or former head of state. That is the standard. Payne, who I had not heard of until I received news of his death, was not transformative to the field of music. If ITN wants to reflect a global audience, it needs to be selective about who appears. His death is undoubtably tragic, but it would take a truly notable person for me to seek a blurb. In addition, I do not voice my support for a blurb unless I believe that the discussion is leaning against one, which has not happened in quite some time. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- @LilianaUwU Knock it off. See my note on your talk page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- See my argument above. The discussions for a blurb in this case isn't about how 'significant' he was it's more about the manner of death. "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Nobody is saying he is a significant figure. It is the circumstances of death that are newsworthy. With respect, it is not really helpful to just say "oppose because I don't think Liam Payne is an impactful artist". Whether he is an impactful figure or not is a bit of a red herring, because his nomination is about the death. FlipandFlopped ツ 02:25, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb - "If the person's death itself is newsworthy for either the manner of death or the newsworthy reaction to it, it may merit a blurb." I would say is applicable here. Thechased (talk) 23:46, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb per Flipandflopped. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 23:52, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support altblurb The manner of unusual death is notable enough to be blurbworthy. I added an altblurb specifying his former band and his manner of death, as that is bringing this major attention. DrewieStewie (talk) 23:54, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Blurbable Often enough, in music history, death makes legends. Not just out of the personally tragic main character, either. The background, the aftermath and everything. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb and Alt Blurb This is both supported and notable, shockingly and sad news as a fan of one direction. Royiswariii | D-GENERATION X | u can talk me :) 00:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb No indication of how they were a great/major figure (fame from being in 1D doesn't count), and while the death was unusual, initial reports do not show signs of this being an attack, only perhaps an incident while being intoxicated. --Masem (t) 00:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Intoxication plays a huge part in most of the most VH1ed rock or rock-adjacent tales of woe. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Which would make this not an "unusual" death, in that regard. To contrast, while Prince died from drug overdose (also common in musician deaths), we posted him more on the basis of him being a great figure, not the death itself. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I never considered Prince great. Michael Hutchence, neither. Nor Robert Johnson. The devil's in the details. In Prince's case, the devil was fentanyl, bloody fentanyl (a pandemic many considered "hot" at the time, like oxy in the oxy days, crack in the crack days or hooch in the hooch days). InedibleHulk (talk) 00:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Which would make this not an "unusual" death, in that regard. To contrast, while Prince died from drug overdose (also common in musician deaths), we posted him more on the basis of him being a great figure, not the death itself. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Dying by falling off a hotel balcony at a young age is uncommon especially when it happens to someone of his background. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Dying unintentionally from various reasons while intoxicated is very common among young adults. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, but how many wasted young adults were global megastars first? Quite a few. Still not a routine occurrence. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Payne was not a common young adult to be fair. Per InedibleHulk. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Well, per you, the balcony aspect even sets him apart from the usual hotel figures. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- "not routine" is not the same as "uncommon". Many people in the entertainment industry that have achieved success at a young age make poor choices, such as DUI, becoming addicted, etc., and in a few of those cases, has resulted in their deaths. It's tragic that we lose that talent, but it happens with enough regularity that's its not uncommon, just not "routine" in that we can expect one every X days (as we've called mass shootings in the US) "Unusual" in the past typically refers to things like assassinations and murder, and even then we typically expect the victim to have been a rather significant figure. Masem (t) 01:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Way more rather significant figures are murdered than fall off balconies. I had no idea who Sophie was either, but yeah, good cautionary tale about trying to photograph the moon while sober. Not exactly famous, though, especially in VH1 circles. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Payne was not a common young adult to be fair. Per InedibleHulk. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, but how many wasted young adults were global megastars first? Quite a few. Still not a routine occurrence. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Dying unintentionally from various reasons while intoxicated is very common among young adults. --Masem (t) 00:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Intoxication plays a huge part in most of the most VH1ed rock or rock-adjacent tales of woe. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb Per the other supports. Centuries123 (talk) 01:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb: Sophie died in a very similar circumstance and not a single person suggested blurbing her death. It's clear that people are only blurbing because he was a member of One Direction (and no offense but he was one of the less popular members with a not-so-prolific career post-breakup). And being a member of One Direction is not an indication for being blurbed in my opinion. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 01:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think there might be a slight difference between someone who never even had a #1 versus a member of one of the worlds biggest boybands. 2A01:4B00:AD37:D300:ED97:E32E:2A7B:1E12 (talk) 19:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb, support RD. Payne is a celebrity, but not notable enough to merit a blurb in ITN. He was a single member of a band, not a stand-alone. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 01:58, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose Blub Not a notable figure. Not a notable death. Cause of death certainly not enough to override the first two. Suggestion of a blurb is a newsworthiness-blind act of vandalism against the intent and value of ITN. The Daily Mail exists for this; not ITN. Dr Fell (talk) 02:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- "It is an act of vandalism against the intent and value of ITN to post something that is in the news, because I personally this death is perfectly ordinary despite every major news organization in the world reporting it"... uh huh, ok. Please refrain from ridiculous or farfetched accusations of vandalism and stick to WP:AFG. FlipandFlopped ツ 02:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- The figure in question is not noteworthy enough for an ITN blurb. Death by misadventure does not change that. Presumed public "shock" does not change that. Coverage by celebrity gossip sites does not change that. ITN is not TMZ. Dr Fell (talk) 16:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- "It is an act of vandalism against the intent and value of ITN to post something that is in the news, because I personally this death is perfectly ordinary despite every major news organization in the world reporting it"... uh huh, ok. Please refrain from ridiculous or farfetched accusations of vandalism and stick to WP:AFG. FlipandFlopped ツ 02:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, neutral on blurb. Definitely going to support RD – he is a well-known figure after all, and his article looks ready to be posted. As for the blurb though, I am still conflicted: I agree with the talking point that was raised by Thechased, but I also agree that outside One Direction, his solo career is not notable enough to be posted. Vida0007 (talk) 02:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb Per Bait30, they put it quite well. Ornithoptera (talk) 02:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose blurb, support RD. In no way notable or important to the extent needed for blurbing. Nixinova T C 02:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- We're blurbing the death (uncommon manner of death/young age) rather than the "importance" of Payne. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- We didn't blurb George Baldock though. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- We're blurbing the death (uncommon manner of death/young age) rather than the "importance" of Payne. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:31, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb He was an extremely popular singer and he died in a very unusual way which I think deserves to be post on the main page. LiamKorda 03:38, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong oppose blurb not a serving head of state or government This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Being a head of state or government has no bearing on whether an RD qualifies for a blurb. RachelTensions (talk) 06:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It is one of the very few cases in which the death as an event has a notable enough impact to potentially qualify for a blurb. Were it up to me it would be the only one. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- This kind of reasoning is why many people are getting angry at ITN and our process. AusLondonder (talk) 09:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It is one of the very few cases in which the death as an event has a notable enough impact to potentially qualify for a blurb. Were it up to me it would be the only one. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 07:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Being a head of state or government has no bearing on whether an RD qualifies for a blurb. RachelTensions (talk) 06:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Blurb. With all due respect to Payne, I think Harry Styles is the only member of One Direction that would even come close to meeting the requirements we generally have for blurbing. One Direction, while a big thing for a time, was really fairly fleeting in popularity in all reality, and Payne didn't really have the sort of solo career that would make him alone noteworthy enough for a blurb, tragic death or not. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:56, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb. Bedivere (talk) 03:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support very famous and influential person. 27.96.223.193 (talk) 04:54, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb Very well known singer dying young and unexpectedly. –DMartin 04:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, wait on blurb. Wait until we find out the specific nature of the death. All we know right now is that he fell, which isn’t particularly unusual. If it wasn’t either suicide or accident, then a blurb would be warranted. Jone425 (talk) 05:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb WP:ITNRDBLURB: "For deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident) or where the events surrounding the death merit additional explanation (such as ongoing investigations, major stories about memorial services or international reactions, etc.) a blurb may be merited to explain the death's relevance." He was a member of what was one of the best-selling bands of all time, the fact that he died so early and unexpectedly is shocking, and per The Independent, his death is currently being investigated. Rest in peace Jaguarnik (talk) 05:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb he was well known but wasn't at all the most notable of his band (Styles has a much more successful solo career. We didn't post the murder of XXXTentacion, a 20 year old who topped Billboard albums three months earlier - an event covered in books and documentaries for six years since. How is an accident/suicide more unusual than that? Unknown Temptation (talk) 06:09, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- The two are not comparable, XXXTentacion was an artist that was barely notable at the time of his death; Payne was a member of the biggest boyband since The Beatles. RachelTensions (talk) 06:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Also not to compare, but I think musical artists being victims of a homicide is a bit more frequent than them falling off balconies of hotels while *possibly* being intoxicated. As I mentioned w/ James Earl Jones's discussion, I'm not a fan of "I oppose John Doe's blurb because Jane Doe didn't get one" as I find it a bit unproductive IMO and without merit. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Biggest boyband since the Beatles? That is a wild statement: New Kids on the Block, Take That, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, Boyzone, Five, A1, O-Zone, Westlife, BTS? Abcmaxx (talk) 07:45, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's also how XXXTentacion was a Florida man murdered in Florida (Broward County all the way) and Payne was an Englishman felled(?) abroad. Bit of that "international intrigue". Who's investigating the investigators and so forth. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I'd like to see the working-out for the assertion that homicide kills musicians more frequently than [possible] intoxication. How many of the fabled 27 club were murdered? How many of 60s/70s classic rock? Even among US rappers, we have Mac Miller, Lil Peep and Juice Wrld dying of drugs in recent memory. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It seems the
falling off balconies of hotels
part wasn't asserted enough. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It seems the
- I'd like to see the working-out for the assertion that homicide kills musicians more frequently than [possible] intoxication. How many of the fabled 27 club were murdered? How many of 60s/70s classic rock? Even among US rappers, we have Mac Miller, Lil Peep and Juice Wrld dying of drugs in recent memory. Unknown Temptation (talk) 16:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- The two are not comparable, XXXTentacion was an artist that was barely notable at the time of his death; Payne was a member of the biggest boyband since The Beatles. RachelTensions (talk) 06:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Strong oppose blurb A creation of TV's and Cowell's ruthless industry, may have been popular among the boyband's teenage fanbase but was not relevant for years nor was One Direction in any way transformative, if anything it was just another artificially created copy-paste boyband. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD and leaning support on blurb. Article is well written and sourced. As per ITNRDBLURB, I think the manner of death fits the criteria we have given he was a part of a fairly well known and influential band (I understand, never listened to any of their music but there seems to be a big worldwide fanbase) so I think this one just creeps over the line for blurbing. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb The readership spike is big – bigger than Maggie Smith and over 10 times Alex Salmond. So, this is quite outstanding as these things go and the article seems adequate. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think this more of a sad indictment of modern interests. If a popular contestant on Love Island were to sadly befall the same fate would we blurb that? We didn't blurb George Baldock, a former Premier League footballer, that had a huge spike in readership after his tragic death. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- George Baldock's spike was about half a million which is not in the same league. This guy was about five times larger at about two and a half million. My rule of thumb is that getting over a million is the blurb level of fame and impact. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Checking on day #2, we find that the readership has climbed to new heights of over 3.5 million while other related topics dominate the top 10, with over 10 million aggregate views in a single day. Yahya Sinwar is an also-ran in this company while his killing article gets comparatively little attention. ITN, of course, indulges a personal preference for politics rather than pop culture but our readers don't care and vote with their views. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:33, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- George Baldock's spike was about half a million which is not in the same league. This guy was about five times larger at about two and a half million. My rule of thumb is that getting over a million is the blurb level of fame and impact. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think this more of a sad indictment of modern interests. If a popular contestant on Love Island were to sadly befall the same fate would we blurb that? We didn't blurb George Baldock, a former Premier League footballer, that had a huge spike in readership after his tragic death. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb widely known. probably many more people have heard about his death than the number of people who've ever heard about a random tiny pacific micronation let alone its elections that regularly get posted here Kasperquickly (talk) 07:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's actually filmed in Majorca. But tend to agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- How small does a nation have to be to be insignificant in your opinion? Elections are ITN/R for a good reason. If it suffers a natural disaster is that less significant than a mediocre musician tragically dying? Abcmaxx (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I am not talking natural disasters. And the reasoning for elections are sloppy. Elections in the USA are important. Elections in Japan are important. Elections in Nigeria are possibly important. Elections in the central african republic are NOT Kasperquickly (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Why would elections in Nigeria be more important than in the Central African Republic? Where are you drawing this arbitrary line? What about all the countries in between the two? Also going back to topic, if only fame and what people recognise was an indication of what to post then we might as well only post celebrity gossip and top-level footballers, such the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, Kardashians latest product launches and forget about space exploration or gang wars in Haiti, which by your logic is too small and far away a country by your standards. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- it's not about being far away, it's the geopolitical improtance, you're either feigning ignorance or your actual ignorant if you think elections in CAR or Micronesia are just as important like those in Germany or Indonesia.
- /thread. Kasperquickly (talk) 11:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- We consider general elections in all sovereign states to be notable see WP:ITNR (along with other general topics). Personal opinions of editors on the level of importance assigned to any of these is not relvant and a change if felt should be sought at ITNR (though consensus is unlikely to change). About the usage of phrases like "/thread", please realize that Wikipedia is WP:NOTAFORUM (edit: I realize you have been warned against making forum comment several times already, a block has also followed for personal attacks (including usages of kek, r-word); a continuation of this is not going to bode well for you). Also familiarize yourself with the relevant ITN and ITNR policies, we do not post based on "geopolitcal" considerations, never have. Though this is now going off-topic from a RD-blurb about a musician. Gotitbro (talk) 11:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- yep, kek is a known nazi word only nazis use (wikipedia says so, must be true), and retarded is a word only sexists and racists use (wikipedia says so, must be true).
- seriously man, touch grass. Kasperquickly (talk) 19:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Why would elections in Nigeria be more important than in the Central African Republic? Where are you drawing this arbitrary line? What about all the countries in between the two? Also going back to topic, if only fame and what people recognise was an indication of what to post then we might as well only post celebrity gossip and top-level footballers, such the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial, Kardashians latest product launches and forget about space exploration or gang wars in Haiti, which by your logic is too small and far away a country by your standards. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:39, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I am not talking natural disasters. And the reasoning for elections are sloppy. Elections in the USA are important. Elections in Japan are important. Elections in Nigeria are possibly important. Elections in the central african republic are NOT Kasperquickly (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Blurb, this is how I find out that he died. His solo career was still quite big when not compared to Harry Styles for example Strip That Down reached number 3 in the UK and number 10 in the US and so arguably had a more successful music career than Louis Tomlinson. Sahaib (talk) 07:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb He was a member of a popular band, not a musician with a successful solo career. And One Direction most definitely do not have the massive impact of The Beatles, The Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd so that we consider a blurb for the death of an individual band member.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose blurb The circumstances of the death are dramatic and tragic, but purely in terms of his importance, he was one of six members of a famous, but not music history-changing band, as Kiril above me points out. A lot of fans, but probably even more people who roughly remember One Direction and that some guys sang together. With Harry Styles my answer would be yes, but this way I tend to be against it. --Clibenfoart (talk) 08:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Correction there was five members (four when Zayn left). Sahaib (talk) 08:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- As stated above, the main argument about this blurb is more revolving around the circumstances of his death (fall from balcony, young age, possible circumstances surrounding the fall, etc.) Had he died in a more common way like a car accident or as Rambling Man mentioned, something relating to drugs or even homicide, then yes this would be a clear case for RD with a strong opposition against blurbing. However, falling off a hotel balcony while being *possibly* intoxicated at the young age of 31, well, that's not that common hence the blurb nom. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 08:32, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- So why didn't we blurb Jackmaster, Sophie, George Baldock, or XXXTentacion by that reasoning? Abcmaxx (talk) 09:42, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb He was a member of popular band no doubt, but that's all. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 08:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb the unusual circumstances make this blurbable. 2A02:8071:6362:54A0:14D1:B266:31D4:FD5D (talk) 09:09, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb : no sense giving the impression that en.wp rewards rich white people with blurbs because they fell off wagons and balconies while trashing other people's property. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 09:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Is that a serious comment? Maybe ITN is broken... AusLondonder (talk) 10:33, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- In the interests of civility, I would advise you strike this comment. While the voting criteria at ITN isn't strictly policy based, this isn't a gossip forum either. Gotitbro (talk) 11:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Was that Wild West wagons or water wagons?? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posting RD, the article is fine. It does not seem a consensus for a blurb will develop here. --Tone 09:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb - not a Michael Jackson or Prince level artist. Sheila1988 (talk) 09:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb It's in the news on a global basis, we do a disservice to our readers to pretend otherwise simply because he was a pop culture figure. Per WP:ITNRDBLURB: "For deaths where the cause of death itself is a major story (such as the unexpected death of a prominent figure by homicide, suicide, or accident)...a blurb may be merited." I think it's merited, his death was cleary unexpected and unusual. AusLondonder (talk) 09:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure he'll make it into List of unusual deaths. So unconvinced over blurb. I guess Kurt would have got one. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:29, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb Been a while since I have been at this forum, but voting seeing the split vote. Initially I too was opposed to a blurb posting, but considering the unusual death this should make it a good candidate for a death blurb (unlike the usual ones we post of notable figures in old age of natural causes). The band's popularity is well known and Payne is inextricably linked to it (I do not this is a case of imputation). Gotitbro (talk) 11:18, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb As much as those who are in support of the blurb claim that they think this person should blurbed because of the manner of his death, it's not really believable that this is the full story. The full story is that he is a somewhat well-known and rich white person from an English-speaking country. To the best of my knowledge blurbs were not even discussed for Sophie, Jackmaster, George Baldock or XXXTentacion. This is exactly the type of death that Recent Deaths was created for. Chrisclear (talk) 11:50, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Please don't claim to read other editor's minds and then ascribe false narratives to them. That's clearly uncivil. AusLondonder (talk) 12:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- These examples are indeed unusual deaths but from what I can tell the notability is limited individually or through any musical group. Payne is a prominent member of globally one of the best known bands in recent times, which Britannica surmises as such: "One Direction, British-Irish male vocal group whose stylish good looks and bright pop-rock sound captivated young fans around the world in the early 2010s."
- While the band has not been recently active, the question arises would we not blurb a tragic death (god forbid) of a prominent member of a band such as the BTS? Gotitbro (talk) 13:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- All deaths can be argued as tragic, even those from natural causes. The mertic we consider is whether the death is unusual, and while there aren't that many deaths from falling off balconies, deaths resulting from misfortune while intoxicated (as implied by reports) are not. Masem (t) 13:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, what I meant was unusual. Foul play or major accidents should not be the only criteria therein. I think suicide is suspected as well here, does that make more notable as a death or is a mysterious falling off more in line with the RD interpretation. Gotitbro (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- XXXTentaction was way more influencial in terms of his music style, which cannot be said for Liam Payne who despite his huge albeit brief popularity, his influence on any genre of music was neglible. XXXTentaction also has a whole article about the manner of his death, so I cannot see how this tragic accident is more notable than that at all. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:47, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, what I meant was unusual. Foul play or major accidents should not be the only criteria therein. I think suicide is suspected as well here, does that make more notable as a death or is a mysterious falling off more in line with the RD interpretation. Gotitbro (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- All deaths can be argued as tragic, even those from natural causes. The mertic we consider is whether the death is unusual, and while there aren't that many deaths from falling off balconies, deaths resulting from misfortune while intoxicated (as implied by reports) are not. Masem (t) 13:30, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, Oppose Blurb His popularity, and the popularity of the boyband he was in, dropped heavily after the 2010's. It was a flash in the pan of popularity whose only staying power was nostalgia. Scuba 13:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support RD, oppose blurb per Kiril Simeonovski, SashiRolls and Chrisclear. Also support LilianaUwU. Assessment of AusLondonder remains unchanged. Cheers, SerialNumber54129 13:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Serial Number 54129: Huh? AusLondonder (talk) 14:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support me? Why? LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 18:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb per most above. Far from transformative in their field, nor are they particularly distinguished within even their group. I'd argue popularity of the deceased doesn't necessarily necessitate a blurb unless under suspicious circumstances, and to me it's clear what happens is no deeper than a few sentences long. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 13:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Also, a quick question, what does it exactly mean for a death itself to be notable? Any respected figure dying of any means could have an argument of "tragic and unexpected death", such as a heart attack, cancer, stroke, or heart disease, when those are some of the most common forms of death. This clause should really only be used if there's reason to suspect their death was actually unusual and would be notable on its own, for instance Alexei Navalny's death in a Russian prison as an opposition leader, as opposed to a simple case of someone dying the way most people die. From what I gather, the means of death here wasn't plausibly caused by a third party and beyond the perceived tragedy there wasn't much to Payne's death than that. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 15:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb The comet blurb is very stale already, so might aswell blurb this one. 51.154.145.205 (talk) 16:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Supporting blurb The comet passage we currently have in ITN is very stale, apparently dating back to September. This is a major news topic and unusual death. Freshen up the feed. RachelTensions (talk) 17:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb While 1D were big, they weren't earth-shatteringly so, and he was not the most famous/notable member of it regardless. The Kip (contribs) 19:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb—One Direction were huge in the 2010s, and Liam Payne's death was extremely sudden and tragic. It's easy for those who didn't grow up in the 2010s (i.e. people like me) to say that 1D isn't iconic like Queen or Nirvana, but the fact is that they were iconic to many legions of fans during their existence, and the band leaves behind a major legacy of its own. Kurtis (talk) 19:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support blurb, very notable individual and huge news story. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 00:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb The only way this would get a blurb is under "death as the story" and, besides being tragically young, this doesn't meet that. Deaths that meet such a "news in itself" threshold would be more the likes of Michael Mosley, where the manner of death is particularly unusual and where there is news coverage of the manner of death itself (and not just because the person was whatever level of famous) - which IIRC we didn't post anyway. Kingsif (talk) 01:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Admin comment At this point, it's a dead heat, both by strength of argument and numerically. Unless this changes, this won't get blurbed. Schwede66 02:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- That very much depends what you're counting. The number of !votes here is about 55. Meanwhile, the number of readership views of this and related topics is currently running at about 10 million per day. It's clearly the dominant topic. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- At this point, I would support disposing of ITN altogether. When someone dies of old age, the discussion is full of "manner of death not notable" oppose votes. When someone dies an unnatural death at a young age, suddenly the manner of death doesn't matter anymore... Unless the only "notable" cause of death is murder. Not to mention how discussions which are undecided after 2 days get closed regularly (IMO the only reasons to close an ITN discussion should be an AfD nomination or the OP withdrawing. They get archived after a week anyway, it's not like they would go on forever.). TVShowFan122 (talk) 18:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- @TVShowFan122: there is a discussion at WP:VPP about amendments or changes to ITN: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RfC: In the news criteria amendments. Natg 19 (talk) 20:19, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- TVShowFan122, I don't know if you've got your wires crossed, but the 'contrast' of the two situations you describe actually sounds like the same argument being applied in both age-range cases. If a person is not massive enough for a blurb just because it's them, and their death is not remarkable enough it would be news even if it wasn't them, then RDs are not elevated from RD to a blurb. Why would we scrap ITN because of... remarkable consistency in the RD line... Kingsif (talk) 23:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
(Closed) 2024 SCO summit (heads of government)
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: The two-day summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization Council of Heads concluded in Islamabad, Pakistan. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, VOA, Al Jazeera, DW, AP
Credits:
- Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)
Article needs updating
- Oppose Seems like some run-of-the-mill summit to me. Nothing really noteworthy coming out of it nor that much mainstream coverage. Plus of course, the citations are missing publishers and accessdates. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:19, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support it is far from a "run-of-the-mill" summit. That's just living in denial of a static geopolitical world order, particularly with 2024. Of course, that depends on the quality of the ARTICLE/UPDATE. Plenty has gone up without the referencing excuse.Sportsnut24 (talk) 07:23, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support on notability, oppose on quality for now The summit has received sufficient mainstream coverage for ITN. However, the article currently does not have much detail about the summit. Notably, a list of the summit's results is missing. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 10:29, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose. Routine summit that hasn't made any major announcement and there's no indication of long-term impact. We wouldn't post summits of equivalent regional bodies (African Union, ASEAN etc.). Besides, the article is terrible, just two sentences of prose and some uninformative bullet points. It would be embarrassing to post that in ITN. Modest Genius talk
- Oppose We generally do not post these types of summits (even stuff like the G7 or G20), unless significant reform measures are signed for individual country ratification. --Masem (t) 11:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose As not seeing evidence of any noteworthy developments at the summit. If someone can demonstrate that is not correct I'd happily reconsider. I'd personally support posting more regional summits as long as something of relevance takes place. The article is obviously not fit for ITN, either. Also we shouldn't post a redirect, the article is at Shanghai Cooperation Organisation. AusLondonder (talk) 12:10, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per above arguments. Scuba 12:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Google searching "2024 SCO Summit" and then NYT, BBC, CBC, Le Monde, Moscow Times, yields no articles. On the other hand, I found a single WAPO article, and it is being more closely followed by Asian media outlets such as the Times of India or the Chinese government-owned newspaper Global Times. Even those articles, though, only really detail that the event happened and make vague, generally non-notable reports ("commitment to cooperation", "new efforts to combat climate change", trade partnerships, etc). On the whole, this is simply not global front page news at the level required by ITN. FlipandFlopped ツ 18:16, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Business as usual, just with more dictators (proportionally) and less information. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:49, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per all above. The Kip (contribs) 18:51, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
October 15
[edit]
October 15, 2024
(Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks
Arts and culture
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
International relations
Law and crime
|
(Posted) RD: Garbis Aprikian
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RTL (France)
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Born in Egypt as an Armenian, he moved to Paris for studies and remained there, conducting an Armenian mixed choir for around 50 years and bringing Armenian music to France. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Robert Fulford (journalist)
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC.ca
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Ktin (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Wellington Bay (talk · give credit) and Connormah (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Canadian journalist. Article seems to almost be there. Ktin (talk) 01:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- This looks promising; only two citation needed tags. Flibirigit (talk) 11:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Ready. All information cited. No other concerns noted. Flibirigit (talk) 13:59, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article seems good enough to me now. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:00, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 11:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Mike Jackson
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times
Credits:
- Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article is a FA. Updated and well sourced. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Featured article, influential person. -insert valid name here- (talk) 01:08, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support Well written article and well cited. He deserves credit and recognition for backing Captain James Blunt refusing to follow the American order at Pristina airport, which averted the Third World War. The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 07:00, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Posted—Bagumba (talk) 11:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
RD: Atul Parchure
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times Now Times of India Hindustan Times
Credits:
- Nominated by TNM101 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Filmyworldwiki (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Well known Marathi and Hindi film and television actor, death has been acknowledged throughout the industry. Has a verifiability tag but should be resolved soon. TNM101 (chat) 13:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- We don’t post stubs. Schwede66 12:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Stub. Scuba 12:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose article is a stub. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: George Negus
[edit]Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [5], [6]
Credits:
- Nominated by Happily888 (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Totallynotarandomalt69 (talk · give credit), ClaudineChionh (talk · give credit), Flipandflopped (talk · give credit) and Jkaharper (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Happily888 (talk) 04:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
Comment, not yet, sourcing could be improved.ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 05:07, 15 October 2024 (UTC)- Support, good collective effort to improve it. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 13:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support, nationally iconic but also internationally relevant. Article is in good enough shape in my opinion. Daniel (talk) 13:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
- Soft support only seeing 3 CN tags, which I feel is near the acceptable limit, but still below it. Scuba 12:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support I have updated the article to address the remaining CN tags. Should be ready now IMHO! FlipandFlopped ツ 02:52, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Support article seems good to go. ਪ੍ਰਿੰਸ ਆਫ਼ ਪੰਜਾਬ (PrinceofPunjab | ਗੱਲਬਾਤ) 17:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Death date Is there a source that confirms the exact date he died? Family statement are not necessarily issued ASAP the same day. I dont have access to the subscription-only citation.—Bagumba (talk) 04:27, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Bagumba: I checked all the accessible sources again (some of them have been updated) but none of them confirm a date of death! If we can't confirm the date does that make it ineligible for RD? @Jkaharper: do you have full access to The Australian? — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 04:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- The death is verified, it's just that we shouldn't use an exact unverified date. "Circa" or something similar would be more accurate, not sure other MOS options ("reported"?) A case where the actual death turned out to be months earlier comes to mind (exact name escapes me). Some families need privacy until the right time. —Bagumba (talk) 04:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- I was thinking of Fritz Peterson (nom). Announced death in April 2024, with no specific date mentioned, but sources eventually came out that he died in October 2023. Sequence mentioned on his page. —Bagumba (talk) 06:14, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Bagumba: see Jkaharper's edit summary 1251498836|here. Happily888 (talk) 06:36, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Happily888: Interesting, if I go to that url, and I don't have a subscription, the free preview shows
The pioneering journalist, one of the three original members of 60 Minutes and the inaugural host of ABC’s Foreign Correspondent, has died at the age of 82
, with no mention of "Tuesday". Have they since updated their page to remove the exact day? Or is that preview different from what's actually in the paywalled article? Do we trust the exact date if this is the only site mentioning it (WP:RSBREAKING)? Could they just have mistakenely assumed it was the same date as the family statement? I'd recommend just using {{circa}} for now, unless there's more clarity. —Bagumba (talk) 07:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)- Bagumba: I'm inclined to go with "circa". — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 12:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Bagumba and ClaudineChionh: Yes, usually the previews on these sites differ from the article content. If you open the URL from a mobile browser view you should be able to scroll down and read the full first paragraph which hasn't been changed, which includes the Tuesday date information. Additionally, the family statement suggests that the death date was the same date as announcement, with media reports such as 10 News First The Project Mediaweek on Tuesday stating that Negus died "today" and the family statement starts with
Today, our incredible father and partner George passed away
according to ABC News Variety Daily Telegraph, showing that that URL is correct. Happily888 (talk) 14:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)- Ok, I'm less concerned with those sources, esp. if the family wrote "today". —Bagumba (talk) 16:42, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Happily888: Interesting, if I go to that url, and I don't have a subscription, the free preview shows
- The death is verified, it's just that we shouldn't use an exact unverified date. "Circa" or something similar would be more accurate, not sure other MOS options ("reported"?) A case where the actual death turned out to be months earlier comes to mind (exact name escapes me). Some families need privacy until the right time. —Bagumba (talk) 04:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Bagumba: I checked all the accessible sources again (some of them have been updated) but none of them confirm a date of death! If we can't confirm the date does that make it ineligible for RD? @Jkaharper: do you have full access to The Australian? — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 04:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Post Date seems resolved.—Bagumba (talk) 05:01, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Bagumba May I get "ITN credit" too? (I'm not obsessively chasing bling, I promise!) ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 22:53, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- @ClaudineChionh: Apologies for missing you.—Bagumba (talk) 05:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Bagumba: No problem, Stephen sorted it out. — ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 05:39, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @ClaudineChionh: Apologies for missing you.—Bagumba (talk) 05:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Bagumba May I get "ITN credit" too? (I'm not obsessively chasing bling, I promise!) ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 22:53, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
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