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[edit]

I have emailed the Balzan Foundation a request to use their Balzan logo on this article. -Wikibob | Talk 19:45, 2004 Apr 4 (UTC)

Balzan have made the following reply, any ideas what I should do next? 

Date:	 Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:47:41 +0200
Subject:	Balzan logo on Wikipedia article about Balzan
From:	"Balzan Stiftung info-at-balzan.com |wikipedia|" 
To:	<my address>

Dear Wikibob

Thank you for your eMail. We have studied your website and discussed 
your
proposal of publishing an information about the International Balzan
Foundation with the Balzan logo on wikipedia.

As anybody has access to change any information on
wikipedia.org/wiki/Balzan_prize, we are not interested in a publication 
with
logo on your website. It means more work to do for our small team to
controll regurlarly the publications.

People searching for the International Balzan Foundation will find the
Balzan-website easily through the searching machines.

We are therefore asking you to please cancel /wiki/Balzan_price.

Thank you.

With kind regards
Internationale Balzan-Stiftung "Fonds"
Claridenstrasse 35
CH-8002 Zürich
Tel.   +41-(0)1-201 48 22
Fax    +41-(0)1-201 48 29
info@balzan.com
http://www.balzan.com


> Dear Balzan Foundation,
> 
> I wish to use your Balzan logo in an encyclopedia article about your
> foundation, as part of the Wikipedia project, so I'm seeking your 
permission.
> 
> The logo I have in mind is:
> 
> http://www.balzan.com/en/img/pic_logo.gif
> 
> And the article where the logo would appear is:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balzan_prize
> 
> Wikipedia http://www.wikipedia.org is a free encyclopedia that is
> collaboratively-edited by volunteers from around the world.
> 
> To get a sense of the freedom of wikipedia, you could even edit the 
article
> without registration right now.
> 
> We can only use your logo if you are willing to grant permission for 
it to be
> used under terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. This means 
anybody
> will have the right to share your logo and update them: for example, 
to keep
> up with new information. You can read this license in full at:
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_GFDL
> (note: To keep things simple, we don't use Invariant Sections, 
Front-Cover
> Texts, or Back-Cover Texts)
> 
> The license also expressly protects authors "from being considered 
responsible
> for modifications made by others" while ensuring that authors get 
credit for
> their work. There is more information on our copyright policy at:
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights
> 
> If you agree, we will credit you for your work in the resulting 
article's
> references section by stating it was based on your work and is used 
with your
> permission and by providing a web link back to:
> 
> http://www.balzan.com/en/ueberuns/index.cfm
> 
> Thank you for your time.
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> 
> Wikibob

-Wikibob | Talk 13:40, 2004 Apr 7 (UTC)

Well, I'd say that using the logo in the article after asking and being denied would be rude (even if perhaps not strictly illegal under terms of fair use). However, if they are a public organization, I don't think they can control whether or not Wikipedia has an article about them. Bkonrad | Talk 15:15, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Public, private, or otherwise, no organisation can control whether or not Wikipedia has an article about them. Provided we don't use any of their copyrighted materials (including the logo), the article's okay to stay. Sjorford 15:23, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

We should respect their refusal for us to use their logo, but we should also explain to them:

  1. show them our mainpage
  2. We are a _large_ encyclopedia.
  3. We link to their site
  4. Unless they have a copyright problem with our text, it's our sake to keep an article on them. They should be happy to have one.

✏ Sverdrup 15:25, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, I will send an appropriate email to them tonight. -Wikibob | Talk 15:45, 2004 Apr 7 (UTC)

You could also try pointing out that allowing us to use their logo will not mean any extra work for them. They seem to have the idea that you want them to give them regular information? DJ Clayworth 15:55, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Looks to me like they just don't want to be listed at all since they can control their own site and not ours, and anyone who searches for them on the web is likely to find them. I would vote for a very small article referring people to their web site. We do have references to people receiving the prize so we ought to be able to link to something. As to the confusion between price and prize, in some languages it's the same word; I don't think this means they think we're saying it can be bought. ;Bear 16:12, 2004 Apr 7 (UTC)

Hell no! Unless this article is a copyvio from their website, legally, then have no leg to stand on. If they don't want to give us the logo, fine, but we will absolutely not remove this article. →Raul654 16:28, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)
You're right, that was a chickenshit position for me to take. ;Bear 17:51, 2004 Apr 7 (UTC)

How to deal with a take down request?

[edit]

I requested use of a logo from The Balzan Foundation, and they replied, but appear to be asking the whole article be taken down. Could someone see Talk:Balzan Prize for my email and their reply? I think they've misunderstood my request, but I wouldn't want to create a problem! -Wikibob | Talk 15:03, 2004 Apr 7 (UTC)


They specifically asked that you cancel Balzan_price! It's understandable they don't want people to think the award can be bought! Kevin Saff 15:33, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Kevin I think that's just a typo on their part. There is no content (or redirect) at Balzan price, so that explanation makes no sense.
I assume they want the article to be removed in case people put up incorrect information about them. I suppose the request to use their image gave them the impression that they could veto the whole article. Since that's not the case (unless it's copyvio) then I suppose you could reply to them thanking them for getting back to you, and telling them you of course wont use the image since they said no, and gently explain that we have articles on all sorts of similar prizes and they don't need to oversee the content of the article unless they want to, as we will protect it from vandalism ourselves. fabiform | talk 16:51, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Reply to Balnzan's reply

[edit]

Thanks again for all the feedback, I have just replied to Balzan's email above as follows. 

From:    <my email address>
To:      info@balzan.com
Subject: Balzan logo on Wikipedia article about Balzan

Dear Internationale Balzan-Stiftung "Fonds",

thank you for your reply to my request to use your logo,
of course we will not use your logo if you do not wish it.

However wikipedia is a very large encyclopedia and has articles on many
topics and also all sorts of similar prizes (for example, the Nobel prize)
and you do not need to do any work to control or oversee the article.
Also, we are not requesting any information from you.

We undertake to protect it from any vandalism or inaccuracies ourselves and
to ensure no copyright violations occur.
People looking at the wikipedia article can always click on the link to
see all the details on your site.

I hope this allays your concerns,

regards

Wikibob
Email: <my email address>
Contact page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Wikibob

--- Your message ---

Subject: Balzan logo on Wikipedia article about Balzan
From: "Balzan Stiftung info-at-balzan.com |wikipedia|"
To: <my address>
... copy of their reply from above ...

-Wikibob | Talk 11:31, 2004 Apr 8 (UTC)

[edit]

After a break from the internet I have found this email from the Balzan Stiftung, requesting removal of unrelated links, but it seems they mean the [http://balzan-prize.wikiverse.org/ wikiverse.org mirror] of this article. The Wikiverse version is the same as Wikipedia's except it includes advertising under related links and does not completely fulfill the GFDL conditions. Here is the Stiftung's email, partly anonymised to avoid spam. 

Date:	 Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:27:11 +0100
Subject: balzan-prize on wivkiverse.org
From:	 "Balzan Stiftung info-at-balzan.com" ***my identifying marks elided***
To:	 ***my email address***

Hello
actually we discovered some wrong links on your site about Balzan 
Prize.
Athletics: Lang and Vella... do not have anything to do nor with the 
Balzan
Foundation nor with its prizes.
The link 1st FEM Anniversary is not working at all. As we can see this 
link
has to do with a place called Balzan in Malta. It does not have 
anything to
do nor with the Balzan Foundation nor with its prizes.

Can you please cancel both links? Thank you very much for your 
confirmation.

Kind regards
Kathrin Ott
Kathrin Ott
Internationale Balzan Stiftung "Fonds"
Claridenstrasse 35
CH-8002 Zürich
Tel.   +41-(0)1-201 48 22
Fax    +41-(0)1-201 48 29
info (at) balzan (dot) com
http://www.balzan.com

I'm guessing they saw some advertising links to Athletics and possibly the Maltese place Balzan from wikiverse (not there now).

I have emailed Kathrin Ott this response:

Dear Kathrin Ott,

I appreciate you bringing the matter of possibly incorrect and irrelevant wikiverse.org links to the attention of the wikipedia communitity.

However, it appears that the links you saw were on the wikiverse.org site:

http://balzan-prize.wikiverse.org/

which is independent of wikipedia.org. Wikiverse appears to be an incomplete and not fully compliant copy of wikipedia. Among other problems, wikiverse does not provide a back link to wikipedia on every article and does not make it clear that wikiverse is not wikipedia.

The wikipedia article on the Balzan Prize is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balzan_Prize

Wikiverse adds advertising links to each copied wikipedia article, so maybe you saw those links and believed they were part of the article?

I cannot do very much about wikiverse.org, but have passed your email and my response to a user I believe may have some connection with wikiverse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tomco

Finally, attached is the full text of the current wikipedia article on the Balzan Prize, it was last updated on 16:20, 2004 Jul 21.

regards

Wikibob http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wikibob

Plain text version: (copied from Balzan Prize) ... -Wikibob | Talk 11:57, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

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