Category talk:Professional wrestling

Discussion

I think there should be a sub-category for professional wrestlers. Help to sift things out a bit. Oberiko 00:41, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

New Subcat

i think we should add another sub catagory for TV shows/PPV's, but i cant think of a good name for it; Professional wrestling productions (maybe), or Professional wrestling shows. Paulley 11:33, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Professional wrestling within Category:Wrestling

Category:Professional wrestlers by nationality and its sub-cats belong within the hierarchy Category:Wrestlers by nationality.

@Galatz: you removed them in December 2017 on the grounds that wrestling is not a sport, referring to a discussion at WP:PW, presumably Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Professional_wrestling/Archive_100#Wrestling_categories

Regardless of whether it is a sport, I am sure that in the understanding of most readers, "professional wrestlers" are "wrestlers".

I have reinstated that category and the national sub-categories A to D. Please would you reinstate the rest? – Fayenatic London 09:38, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I now see that you have taken this further and removed the year categories [1] and perhaps all of the hierarchy. IMHO it would have been better to seek a stronger consensus before making all those changes.

Please let me know if you come across parents that have been deleted after you emptied them, and I will help by undeleting them. I stumbled across the above because some of the wrestling categories which became empty were listed as "emptied out of process".

@*Treker: please also contribute, as you reverted me at [2]. – Fayenatic London 09:53, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I just don't agree that every professional wrestler could be considered a "wrestler" based on what wrestling is. A lot of modern pro wrestling has more elements of other martial arts and some pro wrestling like hardcore wrestling has little semblance to the actaul sport or act.★Trekker (talk) 09:56, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Fayenatic london: I have reverted all your changes as you did not have consensus to make this change. There is a very clear distinction between wrestlers and professional wrestlers. If you look at the criteria for inclusion WP:NSPORTS clearly states that Any athletic entertainment event where the results are at least partially predetermined or scripted is not covered by this page. For participants in such events (e.g. Professional wrestling), see WP:ENTERTAINER. You state I need a stronger consensus yet the guideline for sports inclusion specifically states that they are not under sports. So if they arent then please explain why they should be considered a sport for category. - Galatz^Talk 11:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Galatz: You seem to be relying on a distinction between which guideline within Category:Wikipedia notability guidelines applies to those topics. That does not determine whether one category should be a sub-category of another.

Do you have a stronger policy-based reason to remove all professional wrestling categories from Category:Wrestling hierarchy? In English Wikipedia, categories allow somewhat loose connections. There is clearly a connection in this case, as Professional wrestling says it is often shortened to pro wrestling or simply wrestling, and the other main page Wrestling says An alternate version of traditional wrestling is professional wrestling. Wrestling in this style is often concluded in a raised ring; akin to boxing; and have pre-determined winners.

As you have removed the hierarchical (parent-child) navigation links, I suggest at the least that {{See also category}} should be used instead, on both sides.

To seek a clear consensus, I suggest nominating the categories that you have freshly re-emptied (Barbadian wrestlers, Croatian wrestlers, Danish wrestlers, Dominican Republic wrestlers, Fijian wrestlers, Filipino wrestlers, Ghanaian wrestlers) at WP:CFD. – Fayenatic London 14:48, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Fayenatic london: I believe you are missing my point with the WP:NSPORT comparison. I am pointing out the consistency of not having professional wrestling listed as a sport creates across wikipedia. Doesn't it seem a little silly to say "This guy is an athlete, so lets see if he meets the criteria for entertainers, since he isn't an athlete." Obviously that doesn't make any sense, but that what your argument is in favor of.

I am not sure exactly which policy you are basing "categories allow somewhat loose connections" connections on. From what I see at WP:SUBCAT it says If logical membership of one category implies logical membership of a second (an is-a relationship), then the first category should be made a subcategory (directly or indirectly) of the second. I do not see "logical member" other than the fact that people will often call professional wrestling, wrestling for short. As for your Wrestling article comment, the line you are quoting is unsourced and draws no comparisons two, however they state that it is a fact. I have therefore tagged that and added a hidden explanation, as far as I can tell, this portion of your argument is based entirely WP:OR.

Therefore I believe having emptied the categories and PRODing them is the correct approach to take. - Galatz^Talk 15:28, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Galatz and *Treker: I have started a discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 February 13, so please contribute there. – Fayenatic London 22:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Note, per your suggestion I did put {{See also category}} at the top of Category:Wrestling and Category:Wrestlers. - Galatz^Talk 15:50, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, but if these categories are to remain segregated, IMHO there should instead be "see also" links on both sides (former parent and former child) where you removed the previous categorisation, not just at the top. – Fayenatic London 22:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)