Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Image:John Maynard Smith.jpg

• Image:John Maynard Smith.jpg Permission has only been granted to Wikipedia to use this image. Thus we cannot use it. --mav 03:26, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

I oppose with the following justification. See email giving permission on the page. See also Wikipedia:Sites that use Wikipedia for content specifically:

Wikipedia's copyright, the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) requires that any derivative of works from Wikipedia must be released under that same license, must state that it is released under that license, and must acknowledge the main authors (which some claim can be accomplished with a link back to Wikipedia's article). This does not apply to material that was released into the public domain, to material whose authors have given permission, and to use that can be defended as fair use. (emphasis is mine).

Thus we can use it. I believe that User:Maveric149's main problem is other sites copying the image, but that would be their copyright violation problem not Wikipedia's - i.e. Wikipedia will not have done anything illegal. Duncharris 17:41, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

If User:Maveric149 is right, the following images may be in trouble (all internal links, but full urls only seem to work)...

• • Other copyrighted with permission images
  • Non-commercial
  • Copyrighted free use
  • Free used provided...

which has serious ramifications for Wikipedia, if User:Maveric149's views are adopted. The image upload information should also be appropriately changed, and the above image copyrights dropped. Use of other image copyrights should also be questioned. On the other hand, there is the possibility thatUser:Maveric149 might be wrong... Duncharris 19:19, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

Email reprinted here as well:

From : Jacqui Bealing <J.A.Bealing cough sussex.ac.uk>

Sent : Friday, April 30, 2004 9:30 AM

To : Duncan Harris <dunc_harris cough hotmail.com>, Press cough sussex.ac.uk

Subject : Re: Photograph of John Maynard Smith

YOu can use the photo, but can you give a credit to Colin Atherton, copyright University of Sussex.

Hi,

May we use the photograph of JMS from your press release here http://www.sussex.ac.uk/press_office/media/media399.shtml as part of the Wikipedia project http://www.wikipedia.org , specifically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Maynard_Smith ? Wikipedia is a not-for-profit free-content encyclopedia.

You can release the photograph under various copyright agreements.

Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags

Thankyou,

Duncan

This appears to show a non-commercial if copyright if copyright and photographer are acknowledged, but just to be safe I put a copyright notice on it.

This also violates the principle of avoiding copyright paranoia; the guy was an academic, and a pretty important one at that (see his biography, without picture at John Maynard Smith) and academia is are not generally aversed to a bit of communication. GNU Free Documentation Licence idealism is misplaced. Duncharris 19:36, May 3, 2004 (UTC)

Permission was only given to Wikipedia to use it, thus nobody but Wikipedia can use it. While this is technically OK via the GNU FDL it is not in the spirit of it since it hinders the ability of Wikipedia to be used by third parties. Jimbo Wales, the President of the Wikimedia Foundation, says this about "used with permission" images: "These are not acceptable for Wikipedia." See [1] That is not to say that you could not make a case for fair dealing use. But that has not been your defense. --mav 20:56, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

Right. I think there has been a misunderstanding on this due to User:Maveric149's communication problems and my lack of complete understanding of this issue. The terms of use I think would imply a non-commercial provided copyright and photographer are acknowledged. Is that an acceptable compromise? Duncharris 12:15, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

It's hardly a problem. The page says that it is a press release, which has the purpose of making the image available for publication as widely as possible. Hence, the use is fair in association with effectively every republisher of the article and image in association with it. As a courtesy, we should comply with the attribution request and note the copyright holder in case someone wants to make a non-fair use of it. Just because an image uploader has obtained a license, that doesn't mean that the image is not fair use. Some uploaders may not be able to use fair use because they aren't in a place which allows it, some uploaders may choose to protect themselves by seeking a license even for a fair use image (I always consider doing so, even when I don't really need one - I like protection). Licensed images which are also fair use are very likely to be present from non-US contributors. Jamesday 04:39, 13 May 2004 (UTC)