Talk:Mao suit

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 January 2019 and 10 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bvwrigle. Peer reviewers: Aurgallagher.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 03:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Origin

Different sources are telling me different things about its origins. One said it was based on a dress popular in Guangdong. Another says it was based on the dress worn by Chinese immigrants in Japan and Southeast Asia. And still another says Sun Yat-sen took a Japanese military uniform to some tailor as a model. But then, another source says he asked another tailor (by a completely different name) to design it. What is the deal here? --Jiang

Pinyin/Chinese names

Can we somehow change the mass of pinyin in the lead paragraph to allow for a more clear-flowing intro sentence without that stuff crammed in there, important though it is? Readability is still an important feature! --Dpr

I feel it is important to render Chinese words in their character form, but without following with Hanyu Pinyin, it is impossible for those unfamiliar with the Chinese language to properly read or pronounce the terms. I heartily agree that the readability of an article is hampered by such constructions, especially when an arbitrary method is used to render characters in their simplified and traditional forms, followed by Hanyu Pinyin, Wade Giles Pinyin, and/or an unconventional phonetic/tonal pronunciation guide. I wonder if there is an established WP system in place to deal with the problem. Sun da sheng 05:59, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The Chinese characters and pronunciation in the lead are rendered using the Template:zh template. It is standard across a fair portion, if not the majority, of Chinese-related pages. I agree, though, that it is clumsy. Personally I don't think you need both traditional and simplified in all contexts: if one form is used most often for a particular term then that should be enough. --Sumple (Talk) 06:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Glad to know about the template; I'll have to have a look at it. About the usage of traditional versus simplified characters, it isn't an issue of one form being used more often than another, but of who is reading or writing the word. Every simplified character has a traditional counterpart, and members of communities that do not use simplified characters may not be able to read them, and vice versa. How does one establish which is the "correct" character to use in any given context when users of either character set have an equal interest in their version being represented? Sun da sheng

The template is awful and should be changed. An alternative to the mess it creates is to use the {{chinese}} infobox. — LlywelynII 17:42, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Liberation cap

Could we create a section on the Liberation cap?

Origin

The paragraph stated that this style of clothing was common in Japan and southeast Asia before Sun Yat-sin brought it to China. Then it stops short on further tracing the origin. How/when was this style brought to Japan in the first place? Kowloonese 19:48, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

Sun Yat-sin has studied/traveled to Japan and saw that as an inspiration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.126.75.181 (talk) 23:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Picture

There's a good pic over on de, if anyone knows how to transfer it across? 210.86.74.223 07:33, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Check link

The link to Four Cardinal Principles should be checked. --chrislb 问题 16:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC) Citation 4 is an invalid link and I am going to remove it. Bvwrigle (talk) 17:19, 22 February 2019 (UTC)BvwrigleBvwrigle (talk) 17:19, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Misconception citation

Are there any citations for the contents in the "Misconception" section? Who said Mao suit must include some sort of hat? Chairman Mao himself almost never wore hats with the suit, except when it's the military green version of the PLA uniform. Pseudotriton 18:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. A "suit" surely does not include accessories like hats and shoes. Does a "business suit" include leather shoes? --Sumple (Talk) 23:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

There is no difference between the Zhongshan Suit and the Mao Suit - one is the name by which it is known in China, the other is the name by which it is known in the West. There are simply different versions based on how expensive the material is. --Sumple (Talk) 23:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Not exactly. Some books use the term Zhongshan suit to stress that they talk about the earlier version as the suit changed over time. --chrislb 问题 20:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh. In that case, I would contend that it is such books which have a misconception - because isn't the term Zhongshan suit used to refer to the suits worn by Sun Yat-sen as well as the suit worn by Mao (on formal occasions)? --Sumple (Talk) 00:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, the correct name in Chinese is "Zhongshan fu" (Zhongshan suit). It is called "Mao fu" (Mao suit) when it is meant to be a somewhat prejorative description (usually by non-mainland Chinese, eg. Hong Kongers, etc.) of the outfit. Pseudotriton 18:11, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I've heard of the term People's Suit - in overseas Chinese media at least. Dunno if it is/was used in mainland China. --Sumple (Talk) 05:44, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I googled for 毛装 mao zhuang (Mao suit) today and didn't find any significant links in chinese. I guess it's the same when u google for Sun Yat-sen suit on english websites. 人民服 renmin fu (People's suit) is the name of the japanese Wikipedia version btw. The chinese article only states that westernes call it Mao suit. So I guess it's best to only talk of the Zhongshan suit here as a translation, not as the right english term. --chrislb 问题 21:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

That could be it, "人民服 renmin fu" is the Japanese name. The current article states that it's used in Hong Kong. I grew up in HK and have never heard of it. In the rare case that the suit is mentioned in HK (if at all), it is refered to as "毛服 (Mao fu)". I suggest we change the sentence about "人民服 renmin fu" to refelct this. That sentence is grammatically dismal anyway. Pseudotriton 01:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmm side note but the term more commonly used in China is 中山装 not 中山服. And after speaking to some ppl (andecdotal evidence), the name 人民装 was used in China in the 60s and 70s as a "politically correct" name but was not widely used otherwise. --Sumple (Talk) 09:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

In the year that I spent studying in China, I only ever heard that style of clothing referred to by Chinese people as 中山装 (Zhong Shan suit). An article that I have about the suit published by Beijing University Press states that while it is known overseas as "Mao style clothing" it was actually invented by Sun Zhong Shan (Sun Yat Sen) while in Guangdong Province in 1923. The labeling of this suit by Westerners as a "Mao suit" likely stems from prominent images in the western media of Mao Ze Dong perpetually wearing it. However, to the Chinese, the suit is emblematic of a style that had been invented by Sun Zhong Shan expressly to suit the current needs of the Chinese people following the collapse of the imperial era. In my opinion, the article itself should be renamed Sun Zhong Shan (or Sun Yat Sen as that is the prevailing Westen convention for the spelling of his name) suit, as this would be much more appropriate to the actual nature and origin of this article of clothing. The article should of course note the prevalence in the western mind of associating the suit with chairman Mao, but this fact is secondary to the nature of the clothing itself and the role it has occupied in Chinese culture. Sun da sheng 06:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Other similar suits

The article mentions North Korea as wearing the suit but are there differences? Take for example, Stalin's suit which looks very similar. Are they both based on the German military uniform? Why is one of these suits more ingrained into a national identity than another?--Countakeshi 01:36, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeh iv noticed that this form of dress is similar to stalins, please note that it is widely used in communist countries, mao, stalin and North Korean leaders wear them (i cant beleive i forgot the NK guys names...shit i havnt watched team america in a bit..brian freeze kent..) so like...yeh is there a link

Japanese school uniform

In Japan, the boys' school blazers are very similar.
138.243.129.4 11:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

zhongshan suit is exactly the japanese suit.--刻意(Kèyì) 00:13, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

proposed move to Zhongshan suit

It's a much better title and more culturally faithful to China. John Riemann Soong (talk) 01:48, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

I suport it; I think it is a good Idea.--J intela (talk) 06:05, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

This is very similar to Russian gymasium uniform

The Russian gymnasium uniform (called "gimnasterka" in Russian) is very similar and became a part of military uniform and later that of the party. For example, Zhadov's portrait: File:Zhdanov.GIF --MathFacts (talk) 05:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Western pejorative usage of the term

I've heard, and decades ago also read, the term maopakje, Dutch (diminutive) for Mao suit, being used to indicate a simplistic standard (also e.g. of behaviour) to which humans are forced to comply. It was regarded as the symbol of communist coerced equality. In case also the English term had been used and interpreted this way, the article should mention that fact.​▲ SomeHuman 2011-07-18 05:27 (UTC) P.S.: Here is a link to a 2005 sample, in authentical Broken English, of the Dutch term criticizing egalitarianism.​▲ SomeHuman 2011-07-18 05:47-05:56 (UTC)

Image missing

Mao cap removed? Why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:8A8D:FE80:412D:4A0A:6D66:948A (talk) 11:08, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Future article expansion

A source for future article expansion:

• Gan, Tian; et al. (24 Mar 2014), "Zhongshan Suits Make Comeback", China Daily, Beijing: China Daily Information Co. {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |authormask= ignored (|author-mask= suggested) (help)

 — LlywelynII 17:42, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Mao proclaiming the establishment of the PRC in 1949.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:42, 1 September 2022 (UTC)