Talk:Walpurgis Night

German Name

The traditional name may be Walpurgisnacht, but nobody calls it that way in Germany. It is usually referred to as "Tanz in den Mai" (Dance into May). Many Germans celebrate it by going to dances or by making large bonfires and drinking ;-). May 1st is a public holiday (Maifeiertag, like labor day). (I was born in Germany and have lived in different parts of Germany) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.3.40.56 (talk) 07:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I am german and I disagree: in North and East-Germany Walpurgis-Night is a common non-christian event! Lots of people celebrate it as a neo-pagan-romanticism!--92.226.84.192 (talk) 13:39, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Romanian Name

Does anyone have the Romanian name for Walpurgis Night? --Ryttu3k 12:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

In romanian common speech it is referred to as: "Noaptea Valpurgiei". /dalv —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.218.249 (talk) 15:28, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Beltane link

Should this link to Beltane? The page there suggests they are related (or indeed, the same).

I think not. The Walpurgis Night bonfires have their roots in the 18th century when they were used to scare off predators, before releasing cattle on to the pastures. Also, in the southern parts of Sweden fires are lit earlier, around Easter. -- Mic

Well then, should the Beltane page be altered to note the differences? :-) (sorry, totally ignorant here) Evercat 22:47 May 8, 2003 (UTC)

I feel that the celebrations in Northern Europe of traditional holidays such as Walpurgis or Midsummer (holiday) are quite different from what is described elsewhere. I'm especially concerned with the neopagan connotations and in the case of Midsummer I found it necessary to disambiguate into two separate articles. This far I see that kind of development more likely than integration. However, there might very well be connections between Viking, Finnic, Baltic, Germanic and Celtic pagan traditions in pre-christian times. -- Mic 23:21 May 8, 2003 (UTC)

What I mean is, should references to Walpurgis Night be removed from Beltane? Evercat 23:27 May 8, 2003 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I didn't see your response sooner. :> The cutoms refered to under the Walpurgis headline in Beltane, are traditionally observed on other holidays. The reference is probably inappropriate unless there is some kind of source to back it up. -- Mic 06:04 May 10, 2003 (UTC)

Cultural Links

The author of the popular Harry Potter series, JK Rowling, used this celebration from German folklore to derive an alternate name for a group of dark wizards in the novels, known as “death eaters” (i.e. Walpurgis Knights)

A small note; I believe there was an episode of Lexx from the first season entitled Walpurgisnacht. I don't recall much more than that, but perhaps someone with a clearer memory should include it under References in Popular Culture?

-- It's hard to see why this article makes no mention of Mendelssohn's work "The first Walpurgis Night" [which is, I think, "Die Erste Walpurgisnacht" in the original). I am not competent to add the appropriate comments, but ... perhaps someone else is?

-- In due course I can provide Midi/Noteworthy Music Files of the Work - which should also be referenced in ChoralWiki (for some reason it seems to be totally ignored there under Mendelssohn!).

80.177.220.101 11:42, 8 June 2006 (UTC) MusicJohn, 8/Jun/06

Title of article?

Why is this page at "Walpurgis Night"? I would expect it to be at "Walpurgisnacht". If it is more common in English to translate, "Night" shouldn't be capitalized. Jkelly 03:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The current online version of EB (in the article "Walburga, Saint") uses a capitalized "Night": "On Walpurgis Night—the eve of May 1, the day on which her relics were taken to Eichstätt—witches are believed to rendezvous in the Harz mountains." up◦land 03:49, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. Jkelly 22:39, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

And, Walpurgis Night is celebrated in Sweden too, so I don't think it's a good idea to just use the german name for it.--84.217.147.11 00:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

surprise - no Worker's holiday mention

Surprise this article do not mention any thik about the relation between te workers´ holiday of the firts may and the Walpurgis nigth. Always they are, at least, two dimention for the things one is the formal thrut tath every body knows The exoteric truth. The other is the dark side . The esoteric Truth The satanism maniobrate to obtained their Holiday on the firts of may. The day in with the witches meet in their mountain. They obtain his holiday in disguise of the Reds Parties. Iluminati, my friends, Iluminati Best regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.59.197.33 (talk) 21:12, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

References in Modern Culture section

Some of the items currently in R.M.C. may better fit in a "Trivia" section - including one I am about to add. I thought about adding a "Trivia" section but I did not, primarily because I thought it would be a bit presumptuous on my part. Tzittnan 16:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

A very quick canonization?

I could not find a date for St Walborgs canonization, but I seriously doubt it happened the year she died. (the quickest canonization is still something like over 20 years after the persons death)

The best source I could easily find says she is said to have been canonized by Pope Adrian II. (867-872)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15526b.htm

Canonized 870 by Adrian II, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Walpurga

Chosig (talk) 17:43, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

When they say "the same year" they refer to the relocation of her relics to Eichstätt, but she had already been dead for a long time. Fidulario (talk) 20:22, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

American and Modern Satanism (Church of Satan)

I feel there should be a more overt reference (see another section) to LaVeyian(sp?) Satanism, as it is one of their few holidays. --Shdwwarlord (Sept. 12, 07. 1:44 a.m.)

Me, too. adding now as no objections were made to your suggestion. Shamanchill (talk) 04:02, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't know at what point between 2008 and now (2020) the reference was removed, but I'll go re-add an entry, including some secondary sources referenced. WillieBlues (talk) 04:02, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

The fact that Satanists congregate on this Christian feast day can be mentioned in the appropriate country-related section, if reliable secondary or tertiary sources exist that buttress this claim. As others have mentioned elsewhere on this talk page, it remains WP:UNDUE for the infobox. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 04:34, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Anupam. I see that you moved my Church of Satan entry to be under "United States". Granted, that's where this particular take started 50+ years ago, but there were two reasons I initially threw it in an "Other Traditions" section instead: 1) the observation isn't really region-based (e.g., Satanists in France would just celebrate it at home in France, not necessarily fly out to the U.S.), and 2) it seems that there used to be a huge "trivia" section which eventually got removed a few years back after being deemed to unwieldy and unsourced, so I thought maybe a "non-regional" order of sorts was in order in case people wanted to add more. Oh well, I don't know if there's an easy solution with the way the page is currently organized, so I guess trying to use region for everything works for now. WillieBlues (talk) 05:50, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Hexennacht song by Eichenschild

In music, there's also a song by the folk/rock band Eichenschild titled Hexennacht from their album Mondscheinlegenden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.17.153.96 (talk) 06:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Trivia/References in modern culture getting out of hand

This section is huge! I sorted it into categories to better focus the kind of trivia that's there, and deleted some very trivial points. However, a lot of the trivia just says Walpurgis Night is the name of a song/play/book etc without saying how that title is related to the content of the work. In other words, there's no context.

Comments and suggestions on how we can improve this? Would simply putting it into paragraph form be a good start? That might allow some further sorting by book/film/music genre. Thanks for you input, from your fellow editor Martinship (talk) 03:23, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

possible error in "Origins" section

Hi. I believe there may be an error in the first line in the second paragraph of the section entitled "Origins" in the article entitled "Walpurgis Night". It states there that Saint Walpurga was born in 710. It then states that she was, according to legend, the daughter of the Saxon prince St. Richard. However, the "Saint Richard" link takes you to an article about Saint Richard of Chichester and that article states that he lived 1197-1253. How could Walurga be mistaken for his daughter? I don't know if it's an error in the article but it is a little confusing. I'm hoping someone who knows can clear it up.

Thanks!

Ervinjn (talk) 12:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe I see the problem. The "St. Richard" link goes to the wrong St. Richard. Looking at Wikipedia's disambiguation page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Richard_%28disambiguation%29) I see "Richard the King (Richard the Saxon)". Unfortunately, clicking on it reveals that Wikipedia currently has no article on Richard the Saxon. I haven't learned to adjust links yet, but I'll try to figure it out. In the meantime, if someone knows how, perhaps they can do it.

I also found the following page about Richard the Saxon in a google search: http://leitourgeia.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/st-richard-of-wessex/

Ervinjn (talk) 13:44, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Hitler and LaVey

I have removed the section connecting Hitler to Satanism due to anachronism. LaVeyan Satanism, the only reference for Walpurgisnacht having any importance to Satanism, was invented twenty five years after Hitler committed suicide. Wikipedia is a place of encyclopaedic and scholarly knowledge, let's save the conspiracy theories for the black helicopter sites shall we? It is enough to mention that Hitler committed suicide on the day I see no reason to speculate it's because he was "communing with the forces of darkness", especially when those "forces of darkness" (i.e. Satan and associated acts) don't exist for most religions in the world. 136.242.180.156 (talk) 16:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, but I don't think that the fact that various Satanic sects observe Walpurgisnacht as a holiday should be omitted, either. Shamanchill (talk) 04:06, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with removing the Satanist reference connecting Hitler to it. A more appropriate mention would be his membership in the occult mystical Thule Society. Changing now. Shamanchill (talk) 05:14, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

The way it is written still implies Hitler was connected to Satanism, which there is no evidence of. --67.149.150.252 (talk) 10:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, but the source is a hard (and fairly poor) quote to work with. No offense to whoever made the addition, but an author commenting on another commentator, and on TV, nonetheless? Too many layers of "credibility". I gave up trying to rework it and will look for another source shortly. I don't think that the paragraph is worth deleting entirely, because of Hitler's links to Thule, which would certainly have recognized Walpurgisnacht. Shamanchill (talk) 14:19, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

I recommend removing all mention of the History Channel documentary, 'cause I do not believe it passes muster as a reliable source, all mention of any (tenuous) connection between Satanism and Nazism, and, perhaps, all of the Satanism stuff altogether. I recommend the latter because the sources provided are not all that elucidating. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 16:13, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed and can do. I've been looking for a better source for the speculations of Nazi Occultism in this coincidence in the process of trying to work with this edit. Deleting paragraph now. Shamanchill (talk) 01:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I deleted the HC reference, but on second thought, left the verbiage explaining the controversy arising from the coincidence. I think it summarizes our editing efforts, and fits the article well. Shamanchill (talk) 02:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Someone seems to have removed all reference to LaVey and Satanism from the article. Since this is a documented holiday in the Satanic Bible, surely it deserves a mention?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.167.217.2 (talk) 01:43, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree, Walpurgisnacht is an "official" holiday in the Satanic calendar, therefore should be mentioned. SImply becuase some people may not agree with the tennets of Satanism, does not mean it should be ommited from here --Grindlyth (talk) 18:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Surely the issue is not so much that people disagree with the tenets of Satanism, so much as the question of whether Satanism is a sufficiently important phenomenon that it does not violate due weight issues to mention it in this article. 71.175.244.6 (talk) 16:07, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I've seen the History Channel documentary Hitler and the Occult more than once. HC is a legitimate resource. Hitler's suicide on April 30 and his command to have his body burned was no 'coincidence' - There Are No Coincidences (there is synchronism). Hitler believed in reincarnation and saw committing suicide and having his body burned on Walpurgisnacht as a vehicle to control his next reincarnation. This is an important fact and should be listed in the article. - Brad Watson, Miami 72.153.60.84 (talk) 10:42, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

The Histiry Channel is NOT a legitimate source

The current page includes that statement "April 30th was the date of Adolf Hitler's suicide, and much has been made of this fact by those researchers seeking to investigate links between Nazism and the occult, such as Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke," which, at the very least, needs a citation. I'm familiar with Goodrick-Clarke's book The Occult Roots of Nazism and this appears to be a misrepresentation of his position, which is that Hitler himself was very skeptical of occult claims, although he was influenced by others who took them seriously. The "researchers" more likely to support the position as stated would be Peter Levenda and Trevor Ravenscroft, who are not historians (like Goodrick-Clarke) but occultists. Popegrutch (talk) 20:53, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

It seems that there was a reference included in a "trivia" section, but that entire section was removed on March 28, 2017, apparently because people thought it was growing out of control with very few sources cited. I'll add an entry back that just sticks to the couple of basic facts (no conspiracy theory stuff), with some secondary source references. I suppose listing it under "United States" (where the organization was founded) is the best place for now, even though it's an international religion and organization, not really a region-based thing.WillieBlues (talk) 04:14, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

The fact that Satanists congregate on this Christian feast day can be mentioned in the appropriate country-related section, if reliable secondary or tertiary sources exist that buttress this claim. As others have mentioned above, it remains WP:UNDUE for the infobox. I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 04:33, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

I for one have always thought that Hitler's suicide occurring on Walpurgis Night was just a coincidence. JIP | Talk 14:27, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I , for one, agree that without a substantial source connecting Hitler to Satanism this article would be better off without it. We would not want to be sued by Satan for falsely associating him with Hitler... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.125.143.178 (talk) 16:54, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Vappu

As Vappu approaches, I look forward to getting drunk with the rest of Helsinki on the night of the 30th. However, this article makes no mention of the fact that in Finland, the big party is the night of April 30th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.156.96.173 (talk) 14:31, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

The Golden Bough

For all Wikkans interested in refs RE: Euro traditions on WN - have a good browse through Frazer's wonderful work. Ernstblumberg (talk) 02:53, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

English??

From the article: "The current festival is in most countries celebrating it named after Saint Walpurga, born in Devon about 710."

What is this sentence trying to say? The words may be English, but the syntax and conjugation are not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.95.148.252 (talk) 16:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

• I think I have managed to parse it. "In most countries that celebrate the current festival, the current festival is named after Saint Walpurga, born in Devon about 710." I don't know if it's true, though. JIP | Talk 18:36, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

In Sweden its NOT a public holiday. May 1 is a public holiday but that has nothing to do with Valborg (walpurgis night). In Uppsala, schools are closed because of the local festivities celebrating spring, but its not a public holiday. 83.253.15.111 (talk) 17:32, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Connection to medieval tradition

I can trace the setting of a witches' sabbath on May Eve to 1603 (Johannes Coler). The connection with generic "witchcraft literature" of the Witch trials in the Early Modern period is evident. It is easy to find descriptions of Witches' Sabbaths from the 15th and 16th centuries. But so far I cannot trace where these witches' sabbaths were first placed on May Eve. I assume this element was present from at least the 16th, if not the 15th century, but so far I cannot pinpoint a reference. --dab (𒁳) 13:18, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The Dutch???

I managed to grow up in the Netherlands and live there for 30 years without ever observing anyone celebrating this holiday. The nonsense you find on wikipedia... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.205.183.36 (talk) 08:31, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Bulgarian name

This is celebrated in Bulgaria as well on 1st of May the name is Erminday, Eremia ( Ирминден) 1. On this day people set lot of big fire and jump over it. In part of the country this is against gales but mainly is against snakes, dragons and lizards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.143.249.69 (talk) 20:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't hurt to mention Saint Walpurga was English, no?

Not the first time I have come across the 'lessening' of historical English associations with Germany. Seems a taboo amongst certain elites. What a creepy article so far.

"Walpurgis Night is the English translation of Walpurgisnacht, one of the German names for the night of 30 April, so called because it is the eve of the feast day of Saint Walpurga, an 8th-century abbess in Germania" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.67.247.107 (talk) 08:31, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

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Contradiction?

In the section "Feast," the current text states: The canonization of Saint Walpurga and the movement of her relics to Eichstätt occurred on 1 May in the year 870 thus leading to the Feast of Saint Walpurga and its eve, Walpurgis Night, being popularly observed on this date. In the next paragraph, it states: The 17th-century German tradition of a meeting of sorcerers and witches on May Day eve (German: Hexennacht, Dutch: Heksennacht "Witches' Night") is influenced by the descriptions of Witches' Sabbaths in 15th- and 16th-century literature.[citation needed] Given that witches gathered on this Hexennacht, the Western Christian Church established the Feast of Saint Walpurga on the same night in order to counteract witchcraft. This seems to be a contradiction: The Church could not have instituted Walpurgis Night in order to counteract a supposed celebration of Hexennacht in the 17th century if the Walpurgis feast began in the 9th century. Unless the feast commemorating the 9th century canonization was only instituted much, much later, using only the date of the old event? If so, this needs to be clarified. Otherwise, it would seem that the whole Hexennacht thing is possibly just an incorrect folk explanation for the origins of Walpurgis Night. Dinoguy2 (talk) 11:51, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

... to this day, produces holy oil

Subjective in the extreme, wouldn't you say? Nuttyskin (talk) 16:10, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Pre-Christian origins

Hey! I've tried today to add to the article information about the (potential?) pre-Christian origins of the celebrations on the 30th of April. I've heard about them a few times and later found them also mentioned in Encyclopedia Brittanica. However, I've failed to find other good sources discussing the subject - either confirming or debunking the relationship between pre-Christian rituals and Walpurgis Night. The only thing I found was a popular-science article, which a more experienced Wikipedia user, Anupam, rightfully marked as not solid enough.

My change got inspired by a talk with a colleague where the pre-Christian origins were mentioned and we were surprised our first-to-go source, which is Wikipedia, did not mention it, one way or another.

Can someone help to clarify it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TK synantropijny (talk • contribs) 17:55, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

User:TK synantropijny, thanks for your reply. I appreciate that you understand that the article you added doesn't meet the threshold of a reliable source. Religious Celebrations: An Encyclopedia of Holidays, Festivals, Solemn Observances, and Spiritual Commemorations by the historian J. Gordon Melton (published by ABC-CLIO, an academic press) locates the origins of Walpurgisnacht to the Christian era. He notes that there were some pre-Christian celebrations that marked the beginning of the summer, under various names (though not Walpurgis Night), that have been revived by neopagans as Beltane. The traditions of warding off witches, etc. are definitively Christian however and these are tied with the celebration of Walpurgis Night. If necessary, I could add something in about this. However, as this article indicates, to say that Walpurgis Night was specifically designed to supplant a former pre-Christian celebration, without evidence, amounts to pure speculation, and thus is is inappropriate for the lead of the article ("the earliest extant historical reference to Beltane comes from a very late ninth or tenth century Irish glossary called Sanas Cormaic"). I hope this helps. With regards, Anupam^Talk 18:20, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, this is very informative! And I like the version User:Asarlaí put up now, brief, precise and avoiding any unnecessary speculation. TK synantropijny (talk) 16:01, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Walpurgis gave her name, and nothing else

The article states that Walpurgisnacht is a feast that honors Saint Walpurgis, which is not true. It's a witches' shabbat held on a significant date: six months after All Saints Day, as a challenge against God. Its name derives from a coincidence, because May 1st was already marked by Christian liturgy as Saint Walpurgis feast, and nothing more. Had it been Saint Paschale's feast for example, we would be talking about Paschale's Night.

I had already put that on the article, but was reverted with a single argument: contentious. It's not my opinion, but an accurate and historical fact. Fidulario (talk) 20:30, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Your assertions are not supported by the reliable academic sources present in the article. The Third Walpurgis Night, published by Yale University Press, an academic publisher, in describing the feast day and its eve, states:

Walpurgisnacht: the first recording of the word was by Johannes Praetorius in 1668, referring to the Christian feast day of the eighth-century abbess St. Walpurga, a feast traditionally celebated with bonfires and fireworks on the eve of May Day (April 30), to ward off witches and demons.

You are confused with Hexennacht and therefore your changes will not be accepted in this article. Thanks for your understanding. With regards, Anupam^Talk