Talk:Mount Kosciuszko

pronunciation

!!! YOU MORRONS ... FOR FOREIGNERS : (COST-YOU-SHKO) BOOYAH !!! and dont think.. it is the most simple and managable Explanation ... Jezus I'm the first to thought it...??? it's sad — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.117.218.62 (talk) 01:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Re.: It should also be noted that the common Australian pronunciation of Kosciuszko, "koz-ee-os-koe", is quite different from the pronunciation in Polish.
What is the Polish pronunciation? D.D. 12:20, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Re.: "What is the Polish pronunciation?" It's really impossible to show without hearing it (and even then it is difficult to pronounce for English speakers), the closest would be "Kosh-choosh-koh". The vowels are a bit different and there's no 'sz' sound in English.

I think a better way to show the English pronunciation would be "kozzy osko". MagdaBudzynowska 03:44, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Is it really pronounced as /kɒz.iˈɒs.kəʊ/? It's quite unusual for "u" to be pronounced as /ɒ/, dictionary lists the two pronunciations /ˌkɒs.iˈʌs.kəʊ/ and /ˌkɒs.kiˈʌs.kəʊ/ (with /ʌ/ in the third syllable). Also the trigraph "sci" pronounced as /zi/ instead of common /si/ looks a bit strange. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egg-oh-ease-teak (talk • contribs) 06:58, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

The pronunciation is now in the Kosciuszko National Park article, but I agree that it's weird for u to be pronounced as [ɒ]. Anyway, in Australian the /ɒ/ phoneme (as in stop) is pronounced as [ɔ], and the /ʌ/ phoneme (as in but) is pronounced as [a]. In the video that is given as a reference, Kosciuszko is pronounced as [kɔziˈaskəʉ] (more or less), indicating that the u is pronounced as the /ʌ/ phoneme. I changed the pronunciation accordingly. — Eru·tuon 05:47, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

On a related note, the article fails to mention the nickname of Kossy or Kozzie et al — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.150.71.154 (talk) 06:55, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

I see that there is some editing of the pronounciation again. For what it is worth, I (born and bred in AU for sixty years), and my partner (born in the UK but here since 6 years old), both pronounce it as "koz-ee-os-koe" / "kozzy osko". Aoziwe (talk) 10:54, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

I reckon there's a bit of a "u" sound to the third syllable in the way I hear a lot of people say it, like the "u" in "up". It might be a regional thing. I'm from Victoria, and spend a lot of time with people who spend a lot of their time in the snowfields, where using the name is probably a little more common. HiLo48 (talk) 21:27, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Aboriginal name

There is affair about renaming the name to aboriginal name. As i've heard, no aborigines were living here earlier before English speaking settlers, though... Could somebody explain the matter in article? 150.254.31.167 08:17, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

How do you know no Aboriginal peopel were on Mt Kosciusko pre Europeans? I doubt if anyone lived on this hill in recent prehistoric times because of climate but the hill would have been visted regularly by Aboriginal people before the arrival of the Europeans.

The translation of all aboriginal names as 'Table Top Mountain' is somewhat odd (the reference dates from 1885). Surely the aborigines did not use tables? Why then would they name a mountain after one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.129.45.190 (talk) 01:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Name swap with Mt Townsend

Is this actually true? :"Various measurements of the peak originally called by that name showed it to be slightly lower than its neighbour, Mount Townsend, and the names were thereupon transposed by the New South Wales Lands Department, so that Mount Kosciusko still remains the highest peak of Australia". A quick google search doesn't locate any supporting evidence. A supporting reference would be useful.

It's lifted verbatim from the Year Book Australia 1909 ([1] - this link now accompanies the statement in the article). I don't know whether it's true though. Nurg 05:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

It is true. I have copies of the original maps that show the swap.

I've heard it said that the NSW authorities always knew which was highest, but that Victorian surveyers used what they thought was Mount Kosciusko (but was actually Mount Townsend) as a base line for Victorian maps, which has the ring of truth, but I can't remember the source.--Grahamec 07:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm confused.

Mount Townsend and Mount Kosciuszko don't actually look alike. So how does the story about looking like the mound in Poland hold true if the names of the mountains were transposed? I'm not trying to be difficult, but it does seem to be a flaw.

The Wikipedia page for Mt Townsend gives a direct link to the NSW Year book, and dates the name swap to 1892. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amosshapira (talk • contribs) 13:43, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

---

see: http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/6a446874c613a955ca2569e300158043?OpenDocument about this issue.

That *is* the 1910 Year Book I mention below. It's a secondary source and it doesn't give a date for when the NSW Department of Lands made this decision. A record of the actual decision, with the date, would be more persuasive.

Can whoever is the super-editor of this page, and made the most recent revisions (mdW0, or similar), have a look again at the "corrections" you've made, and maybe edit it a bit..? Because at the moment, the bit you've written about the name swap urban legend, and "re-educating the population", umm, doesn't quite make sense...

Just needs a re-work, I think... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.208.235.162 (talk) 07:50, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Added a dubious tag

The Wikipedia article on Pawel Strzelecki has the story Grahamec mentions above. According to it, Victorian maps mixed up Mt Kosciuszko and Mt Townsend, but that was never a problem in NSW. So the "swap" was the correction of an error in the Victorian maps. The source for this is "Mountain Systems (Orography) of Australia, Year Book Australia 1910, Australian Bureau of Statistics". The source for the "swap" in this article is "Mountain systems of Australia". Year Book Australia, 1901-1909. Australian Bureau of Statistics.".

I've put a dubious tag on the statement in this article. I think it should stay until we get another corroborating source one way or the other. Paul Foxworthy (talk) 05:05, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

The 1910 Year Book does indeed say the names were "transposed" by NSW Lands Department. [2] . The Year Book doesn't say when that happened. Can anyone find a primary source for that?

Not definitive, but: [3] and [4] both reference an article by Matt Smith in Wild (wild.com.au) magazine issue 135 published Friday 19th April 2013.

The plot thickens...

http://mtkosciuszko.org.au/english/strzelecki-kosciuszko.htm says:

"About 1870 the Survey Department of Victoria made a triangulation of these mountains and, on the maps subsequently printed, attached the name „Mount Kosciusko (Ramshed)” to the peak we now call Mount Townsend.

   Then, 15 years later still (1855) [sic - see below], the scientist, Dr R. von Lendenfeld, announced to the world that this peak (our Townsend), which he called Mueller's peak, was not the highest in Australia, but that the honour should be given to another peak (Kosciusko), which he named Mount Townsend after Government surveyor. Lendenfeld's report is still quoted as evidence of Strzelecki's supported mistake.

   For the refutation of Lendenfeld's claims, and the final clearing up of a centaury-old mystery, were are indebted to the recent painstaking researches of Mr. B. T. Dowd, of the lands Department, New South Wales, which have gone far to elucidate what he aptly describes as a „cartographical tangle”.

   Mr. Dowd in an extremely valuable addendum to Mr. Havard's paper on Strzelecki, says that a copy of the polish explorer's original route plan (it is in the possession of the lands Department and is reproduced on p.38) makes it impossible to ascertain with certainty the exact peak climbed by Strzelecki, as the route line marked by the explorer stops at what appears to be the foot of the mountains.

There is, however, in the archives of the Department the first official plan of the Country of Selwyn (1851) drawn and signed by the New South Wales Government surveyor, Thomas Townsend, after his ascent of both Kosciusko and Townsend in 1846-47, five years after Strzelecki. On this plan Townsend shows the name „Mount Kosciusko” against the peak which is in the same geographical position as the Mount Kosciusko of which in we know. Mount Kosciusko was also given its correct geographical position in the first official country map of Wallace, printed in 1860, and, in fact, in all N.S.W. official maps."

Maybe 1885 is intended in the quote above. But 1855 is 15 years after Strzelecki named Kosciuszko, so maybe 1855 is correct, and the "15 years later still" is poorly worded.

Meanwhile http://ianfrasertalkingnaturally.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/kosciuszko-national-park-1-on-top-of.html has an unsourced assertion "For a short time in the 1890s the 'real' Kosciuszko was named Townsend (after the surveyor who first mapped the range), but in 1892 the names were officially switched to honour Strzelecki's intention."

"hike" Australian English?

Is "hike" Australian English? Andjam 08:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

yes definately Maelgwn 12:06, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Easiest Route

I think the 'Easiest Route' being listed as 'Hike' is wrong. To me, the chairlift access to near the top, and then a short boardwalk to the actual summit is easier. Especially if you stop off at the Bar & Grill up near the top.... BryanJones 07:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Walk, dawdle, stroll, ramble ??? Be Bold! ...maelgwntalk 09:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

From Thredbo using the chairlift to the top of the range, and then the return walk of 13km takes 4-6 hours. My 7 year old did it in 5 hours with lunch breaks and occasional breaks. The track from Charlotte Pass is much longer. I did this by bicycle with 2 kids and this took about 9 hours - but that was in the early 1990's when there was still serious snow drifts in summer to slow down the pace.--Takver (talk) 16:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Higher Australian mountains

Firstly, I don't see how there could be a problem with saying Kosciuszko is the highest mountain on the mainland, as the status of the higher mountains is (or at least should be) spelt out later in the article, which is a better option than making any definitive statements about what is or isn't in Australia.

Macquarie Island, which Intelligent Mr Toad mentioned in his edit summary, does not have a higher mountain and so is completely irrelevant, but is actually part of Tasmania, and so definitely included in the Commonwealth. The Antartic Territory is debatable, as Australia has a treaty obligation not to assert full sovereignty south of 60 degrees. The Heard and MacDonald Islands are recognised as an Australian Territory, often referred to as an external territory, but I think you will find that, despite the ways in which each territory has its own special status, the federal government doesn't distinguish between "internal" and "external" territories when talking about territories as a whole. To say they are not part of the Commonwealth of Australia is overly simplistic. JPD (talk) 16:45, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

To most readers the statement "Kosciuszko is the highest mountain on the mainland" implies that there is a higher mountain in Tasmania, which there isn't. The Commonwealth of Australia consists of the six states, the two mainland territories, and such offshore islands as are part of the respective states, such as Lord Howe Island. It does NOT include the external territories such as Heard Island or the Australian Antarctic Territory (AAT). Does the Australia article give the land area of Australia as though the AAT was part of Australia? It does not. The simple correct statement is "Kosciuszko is the highest mountain in Australia (not including its external territories)". I will amend the article accordingly. Intelligent Mr Toad 06:27, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I guess the notion of external territories has enough use to be acceptable, even if it is not official. By the way, though, there are three mainland territories, that would definitely be included in any definition of the Commonwealth. JPD (talk) 09:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Check of mountain overlays on image please

Can some one check the marked positions of Mount Kosciuszko, , and Mount Townsend, , on the winter photograph taken from Kangaroo Ridge please. I am not sure that I have got them correct. Ronnam (talk) 05:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

The labelling on that photo is 100% wrong and I will try to amend it. The point labelled 1 is North Ramshead. The summit of Mt Kosciuszko is just right of centre and is entirely obscured by clouds. The visible peak in the centre of the photo is the Etheridge Range. Mt Townsend is NOT visible from this location, it is behind the large round hill on the right hand side of the photo, Mt Clarke.Eregli bob (talk) 13:26, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

I have sorted out the labelling on this photo so it is correct now. However it is not an ideal photo because the summit of Mt Kosciuszko is entirely obscured by clouds and not actually visible in the photo.Eregli bob (talk) 13:51, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Gallery: (picture entitled) "Thredbo from the mountain"

Whilst this is a quality picture of Thredbo village, the caption implies that this is what you see from Kosciuszko mountain. Yesterday I walked from the top of the Kosciuszko Express chair lift at Thredbo to the summit of Mt. Kosciuszko. I assure you once you walk around/past the Eagles Nest building situated at the top of the lift, you can no longer see the village at any stage along the track that heads to the summit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yytthkb (talk • contribs) 10:35, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Height

The mountain's height is now (on new maps, see Perisher Valley 8525-2S 1:25 000, First Edition 2001) shown as 2229m, rather than 2228m, and I have amended the article. I'm not sure of the reason for the change (from 2228m). Perhaps it's due to the stone plinth now atop the mountain, or simply a more accurate measurement.

Carltzau (talk) 11:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Until the Government or any other reliable site update the height it stays as 2228 metres since I or any one else know how reliable that map is (Not all maps are reliable). Bidgee (talk) 12:13, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Could someone find a reference for the height? I don't see 2228 being substantiated anywhere in the article, so Carlzau probably has the strongest case for 2229. ROxBo (talk) 03:51, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't cite these as sources within the article but [5] and [6] is the best I can find (as the Government link is now dead :( ). Bidgee (talk) 05:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Coast to Kosciuszko

The following is the last paragraph of the Reaching the summit section

Each year in December, an ultramarathon running race called Coast to Kosciuszko (aka C2K) ascends to the top of Mt Kosciuszko after starting 246 kilometres (153 mi) away from the beach. Its first year was in 2004 and Paul Every pioneered the race.

For starters, it doesn't belong in that section. There are no references. The writing is a little sloppy. I have no idea what Paul Every actually did.

Does it belong? Does anyone know more about it? References? HiLo48 (talk) 09:03, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Gallery

Should there be a gallery at the base of the page? A lot of pages remove galleries... --Grapeman4 (talk) 06:35, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Images

Another Image should be in the infobox. The current pic is extremely ugly and I will change it to . Fell Free to Oppose mydogeatsbetter (talk) 08:58, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that for mountain infobox images, the preference is for images of the mountain if we have one, rather than photos taken from the peak. --RacerX¹¹ Talk to me^{Stalk me} 10:12, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Paul or Paweł?

re: [7]

• Paweł Strzelecki Mount Kościuszko: 55 GBook hits
• Paweł Strzelecki Mount Kościuszko: 147 GBook hits

It does seem that this explorer's name is often (through not always) Anglicized. I don't like it, but COMMONNAME and so on, I don't think this is an issue worth pressing. This article is indeed focused on Australia, and so we can leave the Anglicized name. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:13, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

He maybe known as Paweł Strzelecki in Poland but in Australia he is known as Paul Strzelecki. Australian Dictionary of Biography, Trove (National Library of Australia), Monument Australia are just one of many who use Paul and not Paweł. Bidgee (talk) 02:15, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

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There is literally not a picture of Mt Kosciuszko on this article (July 2021)

The first photo you see at the top is of Mt Clark with Kosciuszko only just visible on the far left.

Further down there is a photo which would have Kosciuszko but it's obscured by cloud.

Then there was a photo labeled Mt Kosciuszko from Guthega which is clearly Mt Twynam from Guthega (which I have now removed).

There are also several photos from the summit (but not off the summit) and photos of nearby mountains.

The closest to a straight forward photo of the mountain is one where it is nearly completely obscured by etheridge ridge, the first photo where it's almost out of the frame and another of the southern ridge of Kosciuszko.

I don't have a good photo but if you're reading this and you've got a straight forward photo of the summit feel free to add it.

Sources 6 and 19

Sources 6 and 19 are referencing the same website. Should the citations be merged? The most signifacnt difference between them is the access dates: 06 Sep 2020 and 15 Jun 2019, respectively. Popplio Zach (talk) 04:26, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

That park kill shoots wild horses

park kills and shoots wild horses DONT VISIT 2605:8D80:6E4:1C15:838F:46AD:95B8:D444 (talk) 18:33, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Parks management uses a range of approaches to eliminate imported, feral pest animals, including horses, so that the park retains the Australian characteristics an Australian national park needs to have. HiLo48 (talk) 22:36, 5 April 2024 (UTC)