Talk:Air Florida Flight 90

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Welcome to the Talk page for Air Florida Flight 90

Personal recollections

In reference to the Coast Guard Reservist comments 20 years later, I, as a member of the 464th Medium Boat (LCM) Transportation Company in Alexandria, also experienced the day to day recovery of the passengers, plane and personal belongings of the passengers. One of our LCM's was the main Vessel used by Navy divers to deliver the bodies of the pasengers to our vessel, we then had to identify, tag and tie around the chest a rope for shipment to shore. I do not remember the Coast Guard having any responsibility of identifying the bodies. This was all done by our Army Reserve Unit. I remember seeing all frozen faces of all the passengers plus being handled the 2 week old baby from The Navy Divers on Super Bowl Sunday Morning to wrap in a blanket. Yes, the eyes of the baby were frozen with looked like tears coming from his face.

It does not seem like twenty-five years ago. I was working at the airport at the time and I can still remember the awful feeling when I heard about it. Later, I had the opportunity to visit the hangar where the aircraft remains were stored after the NTSB had gone over them. The one thing that forever remains in my mind are the tables filled with the personal effects. Little things like shoes or paperback books. I still see the children's toys lying there. After all these years I still choke up and start to weep. People who work in aviation should see these things. That's when the results of an air crash become very real and human.Phyllis1753 23:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

😢 Bucky winter soldier (talk) 14:40, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Just as a matter of hair-splitting...

A total of 78 persons died in what was the worst accident in Washington, D.C. until the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Since the Pentagon is in Arlington, Virginia, the September 11 attacks technically did not happen in Washington, D.C. You may want to rephrase the above sentence slightly. -- Northenglish (talk) -- 19:48, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at it now. I reworded it to refer now to the whole metropolitan area vs. DC itself. SchuminWeb (Talk) 22:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah but, close enough. Right? Bucky winter soldier (talk) 14:40, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Howard Stern reference

The Howard Stern reference deleted. It might be appropriate in an article with the title "Howard Stern." It is NOT appropriate here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.240.252.9 (talk • contribs) .

While Mr. Stern's conduct might have been beyond what most would consider the boundaries of good taste, it is a response to the crash, and thus is related enough to deserve a place. Thus it's going back in. SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Agree that is should be mentioned, have reinstated it and provided a source link. Every time I remember the crash, I also remember Stern's stunt. I think it was the first time I had ever heard of him RoyBatty42 18:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed the reference that it was potentially a lead up to his firing at WWDC. The History of Howard Stern Act 1 had a complete, flat out denial that it was related to his firing in any way. Taiki (talk) 04:02, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I was listening to Howard Stern that day, and I recall him asking for the price of a ticket from National to the 14th Street Bridge, not whether the 14th Street bridge would become a permanent stop. Whether he was pretending to call Air Florida or not is debatable as well. It sure sounded like a reservations agent on the other end of the line. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mencik (talk • contribs) 16:51, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

The issue of relevance to this article has once again been raised. I not only agree with SchuminWeb, but I went further and provided a reference showing that it impacted the DC radio-listening community on the radio for many years afterward. Specifically, 10 percent of the morning drive-time listeners, for perhaps 45 minutes a day, for perhaps 200 days a year, for perhaps six years, ended up listening to someone else due to, indirectly, Florida Flight 90. That's 90 million person-hours. The affected audience was predominantly young males, meaning that Florida Flight 90 defined pop culture for an entire generation of males who were young between 1982 and 1988 (when Howard Stern returned to the DC airwaves via syndication to WJFK) -- DC-area males born between, say, 1956 and 1974. More than just a radio personality change, it actually served as a daily reminder of the Flight 90 tragedy. To the DC community is huge (and perhaps which objectors to including Stern in this article are not a part of), Stern and Flight 90 are intimately, irrevocably, and irretrievably connected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelmalak (talk • contribs) 00:42, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

It's certainly relevant to Howard Stern, and it's now in that article ([2]). You make an argument that it's relevant to local DC radio. I'm agnostic on that point, but would not object if it were added to some article about local DC radio. But you don't make any argument that it is relevant to Flight 90. It has nothing to do with Flight 90. Readers interested in learning about Flight 90 get no information about Flight 90 from that paragraph. TJRC (talk) 20:24, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps this Air Florida Flight 90 article needs an "Aftermath" section, such as in the pages for TWA Flight 800, American Airlines Flight 77, Iran Air Flight 655, etc. Someone coming to this Flight 90 page will want to know its impact on society, and won't know to look on either a DC radio page or Howard Stern page. Michaelmalak (talk) 03:15, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

If third-party references establish that impact, I would be okay with that. But in any event, the Stern discussion really doesn't merit such a detailed paragraph. A sentence, at most. TJRC (talk) 23:35, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

for what it's worth: On the Letterman show "My next guest ...." with Stern, Stern denies that he actually called Air Florida but claims that he mimicked it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Felixkrull (talk • contribs) 21:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

on Inside Radio he also claimed it was a sketch not an actual call

http://www.insideradio.com/free/stern-on-stern-i-had-a-lot-of-rage-and/article_13263a96-656a-11e8-93d6-8f4a0c7ff8b0.html

"The comment that brought Howard Stern his most notoriety during his time on Washington, DC radio in the early ‘80s was the infamous Fourteenth Street Bridge Incident. As morning man at “DC101” WWDC, Stern was reacting to the Air Florida flight that crashed into the bridge in February 1982. "What's the price of a one-way ticket from National to the Fourteenth Street Bridge?” he asked. “Is that going to be a regular stop?”

While it was a make believe call – Stern never actually phoned the airline – the riff became legendary. "

I guess an actual audio tape of that show would answer the question definitively.

but, the article should probably use the words legendarily or mythically...

--Patbahn (talk) 19:28, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Worthwhile to incorporate?

Does anyone think that this is worthwhile to incorporate?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/11/AR2007011102220.html

This is from the January 12, 2007 edition of The Washington Post. Could be worth something. Thoughts? SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Kelly Duncan

There is a message on the bio of Kelly Duncan that the article should be 'incorporated' into the article. I would disagree as other survivors have their own bio page. In addition, it is of interest to be a separate article, in that it provides an interview describing a personal reflection as to how life-changing the event was.

Finally, other survivors and heroes have their own articles.Wayfarers43 (talk) 06:50, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I saw the notice as I was browsing by. I don't believe there is much reason to merge Kelly Duncan into this article, for the reasons you mention (the article is also decently structured with references - a welcome rarity for its type). Moreover, if we merged this one then we would have to do the same thing with the other people's articles. It was said that the article went against WP:ONEEVENT, and it does conceivably, but in this case it makes some sense to give each person their own article, particularly as many of them have received various awards and distinctions for their actions. Just my thoughts... The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 23:31, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree with the above reasons. It just would not make sense to merge. Let's keep them separate; that's my 2 cents. Airplaneman (talk) 02:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

USAF Involvement

I drove a van from Bolling AFB, with several security police officers on board. We secured the landing area for the helicopter as well as other duties. If I remeber correctly there was a subway accident as well and how we managed to get involved as DCPD was tied up with the subway incident. I recall receiving a Humanitarian Servive Medal for our parcipation. Why is ther n mention of the USAF involvement? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iigeminii (talk • contribs) 22:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmm yeah. If they were there, a mention of them should be included Bucky winter soldier (talk) 14:42, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Accuracy

This article contains an unsourced statement that the aircraft attained a maximum altitude of 352 feet. However, the actual NTSB report, to which this article links, says the actual altitude could not be determined, but that modeling showed it was likely between 200 and 300 feet (pages 53-54).76.23.157.102 (talk) 09:27, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, go ahead and fix it, then. SchuminWeb (Talk) 10:30, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Why the Sixth Passenger passed the rescue line

The Weather Channel aired an episode of When Weather Changed History "Air Florida Crash" in which survivor Joe Stiley describes talking to the sixth survivor trapped in the tail wreckage. The man said he was caught by debris. Any further insight about how easily (or not) he could have been freed? 71.81.183.206 (talk) 18:11, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I think he was stuck between seats or entagled in the seat belts. The other 5 rescued were around the tail section, #6 was more inside the tail section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.54.89 (talk) 18:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Suggest Addition of Flight Crew Section

I feel that a bit more detail is needed to describe the crew's safety background and short time at the airline. I have already entered more information and a citation for the Captain's training test failures and suspension, but feel the article requires a short but separate section that I am more than happy to write. Captjosh (talk) 17:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

File:N62AF January 1982.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Need sourcing for an image

We need better sourcing for File:N62AF January 1982.jpg. It is currently up for deletion on Commons, and so let's start digging so that we can get a solid source for this image to prevent it from being deleted. SchuminWeb (Talk) 03:29, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Medal of Valor

It appears that he also received a Medal of Valour from the Parks Police.--Plad2 (talk) 18:00, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Old Merge tag needs decision

The Merge tag on this article dates from July 2008 and the "discussion" link goes nowhere. I have posted a query about this at the Aviation Project Talk page--Plad2 (talk) 18:00, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Priscilla Tirado

seems is wrong name please check it31.27.213.176 (talk) 01:28, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Priscilla Tirado is her correct name, at least by my ear while watching the National Geographic episode covering this crash; perhaps the spelling is slightly different, but I doubt it. She was flying to Tampa with her husband and baby, both of whom died in the crash, to start a new life. I provided a citation to the episode as Chester Panzer was interviewed in it and discusses his video coverage from the Virginia shoreline. Boteman (talk) 16:23, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Washington Post confirms the spelling "Tirado": [3]. TJRC (talk) 19:08, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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what the f***k is this?!? is this cyberbot-bullshit responsible for these faulty numbers of survivers? Kulturbastardo (talk) 01:24, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Wrong numbers of survivors

the article states in the infobox and beginning despite the fact of getting the numbers right in the events-of-crash-section:

Survivors 14 (15 initially)

Fourteen passengers and one flight attendant survived and were rescued from the crash...Five motorists on the bridge were killed.

both are wrong. nearly every source reads 5 survivers from the plane and 4 killed motorists. I dont know who editet those numbers in, but whoever gave those faulty changes a pass, is the real one to blame here, right? especially when the RIGHT numbers are showing up later in the article:

   Four of the crew members (including both pilots) died.
   One crew member was seriously injured.[4]:10
   70 of the 74 passengers died.[4]:10
   19 occupants were believed to survive the impact, but their injuries 
   prevented them from   escaping.[4]:76

Of the motorists on the bridge involved:[4]:10

   4 sustained fatal injuries
   1 sustained serious injuries
   3 sustained minor injuries

I am gonna change these numbers now. Kulturbastardo (talk) 01:22, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

I think the numbers were messed with again... mmccull9039c

Not a ditching

I really don't think this belongs in the "Airliner accidents and incidents involving ditching" category. The page for ditching defines it as a situation where "the flight crew knowingly make a controlled emergency landing on water"-which is the exact opposite of what happened to QH90.184.1.71.147 (talk) 02:59, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

 Done - I agree. Samf4u (talk) 12:01, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Trump nozzle

> The inaccurate mixture was the result of the replacement of the standard Trump nozzle, "…which is specially modified and calibrated, with a non-modified, commercially available nozzle." The operator had no means to determine if the proportioning valves were operating properly because no "mix monitor" was installed on the nozzle.[4]:57–58

I'm sorry, this just made me laugh. I guess it was designed by an unrelated person with the surname Drumpf?

Is this subtle vandalism? Or is it just a strangely named nozzle type? Looks like it's just a strangely named deicing vehicle.

Ellenor2000 (talk) 02:35, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Looks like this was removed by an IP editor not long after the above comment; but yes, this just refers to a deicing vehicle manufactured by a company named "Trump". See, e.g., [4]. The vehicle was specifically discussed in the NTSB report, but probably does not need to be identified by name; see [5], section 1.17.3 on pages 30-31. TJRC (talk) 19:00, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for understanding and explaining Ellenor2000 (talk) 21:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Image of airliner involved

I found the airliner involved in the accident, here:

https://aviation-safety.net/photos/displayphoto.php?id=19820113-0&vnr=1&kind=PC That one is from January 1982 same year of accident.

https://aviation-safety.net/photos/displayphoto.php?id=19820113-0&vnr=2&kind=PC This one is from December 1980.

They’re both from ASN so is it possible we could ask to use these images as it is the aircraft invoked in the accident?

OrbitalEnd48401 (talk) 15:22, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Full Throttle

The plane had pitched up due to icing and angle of attack was reduced. The Safety Board concluded that the accident could have been avoided if the pilot(s) had ordered full throttle to the engines. This was reported in the August 11, 1982 edition of the New York Times. Therefore even with compromised performance due to icing the tragedy was avoidable when the plane was in the air, even after the mistakes made by the pilots. This wikipedia entry should make mention of this finding published by the NTSB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.79 (talk) 20:09, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Airport closed due strong snow storm

It is true, but there is no mention of the fact that the closure was also implemented to clean the runways at intervals since the airport only allowed a single take-off or landing operation at a time; they had to remove the snow from the runways to return it to a safe operating condition. The speaker is a certified and practicing airline pilot and details the full sequence of the unfortunate incident here at 2:00

Regards, Tonifa (talk) 03:16, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

References

Diagram

Could a diagram of where the passengers were sitting (like in other plane crash pages) be included in this article? If there is one, then sorry. I have read a couple of these so I might have forgotten what articles had diagrams Bucky winter soldier (talk) 14:45, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Wreckage of plane still in Potomac?

Was any attempt made to remove the wreckage from the water? How deep is the Potomac at that location? Is the wreckage a danger to anyone for any reason? Removing the wreckage likely would provide opportunity to acquire more data about the actual crash.2603:6010:4E42:500:98A9:59D1:8694:9D60 (talk) 03:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Wiki correction

so the article they printed here says rescue workers were not able to enter the River due to hypothermic conditions and the ice well the so-called rescue workers or Heroes as they like to call themselves did nothing while a civilian jumped in and saved a woman if four or five of them jumped in the poor fellow who sacrificed himself would have lived. So two a civilian just standing on the shoreline did more than any rescue worker on the ground the helicopter Personnel were exemplary. Shojohn (talk) 05:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Impossible distance

The article claims the bridge was "0.75 nmi (1 mi; 1 km)" from the runway. Looking at Google maps I get closest to 1 mi which would be 1.6 km or 0.9 nautical miles. Regardless of the correct distance, 1mi is not 1km and makes a distracting nonsense. 92.22.233.255 (talk) 15:22, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Don't panic, a case of overrounding. EEng 16:41, 10 April 2024 (UTC)